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Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

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Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#131

Post by Const-me »

nine_k wrote: post #127
Const-me wrote: post #104

Good one, but IMO a bit too expensive for the specs. I recently got a new laptop with Ryzen 5 5600U, 32GB RAM, and 2TB SSD. The laptop is HP ProBook 445 G8. RAM and SSD were sold separately, the upgrade only took 10 minutes and 6 screws. I paid less than €1000 including the upgrades. The laptop is comparable to the Framework professional they offer for €2280. AMD CPU is better, 15442 versus 11036 points of cpubenchma…

That's what economy of scale does for you. Also, this is what integration, that is, limiting the customization options, does for you. Having a niche and highly customizable thing costs you extra.

> Having a niche and highly customizable thing costs you extra.

Niche sure, but I'm not sure I agree it's highly customizable. Not all laptops are designed like macbooks with just a couple ports and soldered everything. There're still good models made in large volumes. They are often made for corporate sector, but who cares about their marketing as long as the hardware's good.

I have already replaced RAM and SSD in my laptop as soon as it was delivered. WiFi is user upgradeable as well, but I don't have a reason to replace that part. It does not need port expansion cards because all these ports are already built-in.

Also, for people in US or other countries where their online configurator works, that model is even more customizable than the Framework laptop: supports a choice of 5 CPU models, a few different display panels (albeit I have to admit none of them is as good as the one in the Framework), optional infrared webcam, couple options for keyboard.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#132

Post by sowbug »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #113
omdv wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, so obviously YMMV. On battery - I am using "sleep then hibernate", which typically means 4-6% of battery drain overnight which happens while it is in first ~2hrs of sleep mode. Of course it means you now spend 30sec booting up, but I can live with that. On touchpad - weird, my experience is opposite. I'd say this is the closest to Macbook experience I had, no issues whatsoever. Speakers are a bit quiet, ag…

Genuine question here. I run gentoo on an NVMe drive and I have zero reason to use sleep or hibernate as my machine gets to the DE in under 30s. What use cases are there that absolutely requires these features when boot times are so short?

The task I want to do is quick, and I don't want to spend 30 seconds waiting to start something that might finish in less time than that.

A bunch of browser tabs are open, and I don't feel like recovering them at relaunch.

I have my app windows set up exactly the way I like them, down to the pixel.

I'm used to my phone, TV, microwave, wristwatch, stereo, and car not needing to boot up.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#133

Post by sowbug »

nikodunk wrote: post #10
sudders wrote: post #6

Can't wait for framework laptop to run Linux/Ubuntu stable (without battery drain issues) Then I'll be switching all the developers in our company over to a new machine. (Currently running XPS 13, but we are due an upgrade, especially on memory)

Is this an issue for Ubuntu specifically or all distributions? Read somewhere that they recommended Fedora 35 for the best driver support at the moment, though that'll probably change after the next releases of 22.04 and F36. Awesome that you're switching your whole team to Frameworks - my next work laptop will for sure be a Framework too :)

Ubuntu 21.04 on Framework won't resume from standby. I have to force-shutdown with a power-button long-press each time. I haven't tried an A/B test, but I read that this behavior is due to the volume being LUKS-encrypted. I don't understand why this would be the case.

Not encrypting the volume isn't an option for me.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#134

Post by ksec »

aunty_helen wrote: post #9
sudders wrote: post #6

Can't wait for framework laptop to run Linux/Ubuntu stable (without battery drain issues) Then I'll be switching all the developers in our company over to a new machine. (Currently running XPS 13, but we are due an upgrade, especially on memory)

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

Your link actually answered your question in the 2nd reply.

>That’s not subpar, that’s standard. There’s a reason why macbook touchpads are so widely praised.

Trackpad improvement in current gen PC is a very recent thing. After people trashing PC laptop trackpad for years, and Microsoft throwing in some R&D money to help improve the situation.

And again if you are comparing to a Macbook, most PC speaker has been garbage for years. Only when reviewer start comparing their PC laptop speakers to Macbook did they start to put effort into improving it.

I dont know any reviewer actually said it is Macbook Killer. It would actually be a stupid thing to say. ( Show them to me so I will take notes ). But I am not surprised because current generation so called reviewers have practically little hardware and supply chain knowledge.

There are of compromise being made to have it all fixable. But they also put in the extra effort in motherboard reliability design. And things that aren't so obvious. Compared to Macbook which is all integrated. ( Although that is changing now, you see more individual components "blocks" being used )

I think it is an expectation problem. And may be people should not have overhyped it so much.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#135

Post by gnufied »

Jerry2 wrote: post #84

One of the members of my team ordered a Framework Laptop, the Professional edition, about 4 months ago to replace his old Lenovo. In the first week, he had battery drain issues. Even when he put it to sleep, it would drain the battery. He had to keep it plugged in at all times. He tried few distros (including the older version of Ubuntu they recommend) and the problems persisted. His screen also had issues and colors…

The battery drain issue though is not unique to Framework laptop. I have a Thinkpad T14s 4750U pro laptop and it drains battery too.Look at number of threads on Lenovo forums about battery drain issues.

I suspect as a whole intel moved to these new fangled s0ix sleep states, which are not well supported in Linux and s3 state does not work well enough in these new Laptops.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#136

Post by zucker42 »

goodpoint wrote: post #81

Is it Open Hardware? Where are the schematics? If not, is it really that different than a thinkpad?

I recall a recent HN post about reverse engineering a thinkpad EC in order to get around battery DRM.

With framework that would be doubly unnecessary because the EC firmware is open source. Also they open source stuff having to do with their add on modules.

Plus, I'd wager a guess that Intel/AMD make you sign an NDA that would probably rule an open mainboard (I don't know this for sure). What may need to happen to get high end open hardware is for a company with the right ethos to become big enough to have negotiating power or to design their own SOC.

Framework is trying to strike a balance between producing laptops competitive with mass market offerings and providing users control. If you want freedom over all else you should probably buy a Librem or MNT reform.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#137

Post by XorNot »

culopatin wrote: post #52
avl999 wrote: post #51

I hate this trend of apple style trackpads that take up most of the real estate and keep registering false positives when you type. I have to use a macbook for work and most of the time I can use it just fine in clamshell mode connected to external keyboard/peripherals but ocassionally when I am not at my desk and have to interact directly with the laptop it's an absolutely atrocious experience due to that damn track…

To you maybe. I hate small trackpads. I move the arrow more than I type and palm detection works well for me, so who’s right?

Well you'd hope the Framework would mean neither of us have to be.

This is what I've ultimately found to put me off the project - what I can customise I mostly don't need to, and the things I'd really like choice on: keyboard style, trackpad, etc. I can't.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#138

Post by Torifyme12 »

gsich wrote: post #95
kmeisthax wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been discussions about dual-port expansion cards on the Framework forums[0], but the problem is finding a chip that will pass through all the things you expect USB-C to handle over both ports. This is actually a larger problem with USB-C, as each altmode is basically a different spec that reuses the same connector, with lots of negotiation and custom electrical requirements involved. So any moderately niche a…

I don't know if that is expected. I don't because of the usual shitshow with USB-C.

USB C is a case study in "There's no way that can be according to spec" and being disappointed every single time

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#139

Post by hahajk »

hiimshort wrote: post #125
gentle wrote: post #109

I'm looking forward to buying one of these as soon as there's good Linux support.

I've had my Framework laptop for a few months now and NixOS (GNOME desktop) has been working excellently.

Same, although I use Nixos with Pantheon WM.

Since it boots to desktop in 10-15 seconds I don’t have to deal with the overnight power issues everyone complains about. And since it doesn’t run a hundred automatic background processes it’s much quicker to start working than my MBP was.

Printing on the other hand…

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#140

Post by climb_stealth »

sneak wrote: post #58
culopatin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is eh about the build? It’s my first Apple device after a series of high end Windows laptops and I can’t find anything on the build that is not solid in comparison. The only complaint I have is that sometimes the keys leave an imprint on the screen but that could just be my bag being too tight. I would definitely have this problem with a Thinkpad or high end HP anyway. Speakers are the best I’ve heard and the ch…

The bottom panel isn't supported well against the internal components and it makes a hollow sound, it feels like plastic even though it is metal. Compared directly to the immediately preceding 16" it feels way less solid (I have both). It's also rather ugly, I look forward to Apple spending more time figuring out how to get those features and capacity into a case that doesn't echo boxy plastic PC laptops from 15 year…

I'm glad you say this. The latest Macbook just feels cheap. It feels and looks like one of those fake plastic computers they use for displays at Ikea. A huge difference to previous models which feel solid and high quality.

Not sure if the quality is actually any different. But my first impression was "what the fuck is this?".

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