Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 437 posts

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#131

Post by henryfjordan »

shimfish wrote: post #95
henryfjordan wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there will end up being a single app store for both Android and Apple? As a small dev, you'd only have to deal with 1 upload, a single review process, one set of user reviews, etc.

So you're suggesting that either Google or Apple will just step aside? And the point of this monopoly busting legislation was to create a bigger monopoly?

The legislation would require Google/Apple to "step aside" and allow side-loading/alternative app stores, so yes?

Google and Apple would still be welcome to operate their own stores. A 3rd-party cross-platform store would compete with them, hence no monopoly.

Edit: I guess you read my comment to mean "Apple's app store would come to Android" or vice versa? That's a possibility. I'd prefer that to the current state of affairs where no direct competition is possible

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#133

Post by Apocryphon »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #118
olyjohn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's being removed from you again? Don't sideload apps if you don't like sideloading. Keep using Apple's app store if you like it, or maybe in the future, you will find you like an app store better than Apple's. We will never find out if someone does it better than Apple, if nobody can even try.

> What's being removed from you again? Don't sideload apps if you don't like sideloading. Keep using Apple's app store if you like it, or maybe in the future, you will find you like an app store better than Apple's. We will never find out if someone does it better than Apple, if nobody can even try. Um, the fact I've told any semi-non-competent person to buy iPhone because it very specifically won't screw up like the…

And if Apple can't keep the quality of their software from falling to that level, just because of being slightly more open, then that is their failure.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#134

Post by Apocryphon »

threeseed wrote: post #96
olyjohn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's being removed from you again? Don't sideload apps if you don't like sideloading. Keep using Apple's app store if you like it, or maybe in the future, you will find you like an app store better than Apple's. We will never find out if someone does it better than Apple, if nobody can even try.

This is such a facetious argument. You know that developers will end up using alternate App Stores. Which means I will be forced to use them if I want to continue to use the app.

What developers will do that? Android has alternate stores, and there isn't any vendor lock-in. The Amazon and Samsung Android alternatives to the Play Store aren't huge competitors. Epic hasn't tried to build their alternative Android app store yet with Fortnite as an exclusive. This is all scare-mongering about what could happen but probably won't happen. Name a single major Android app that's located on an alternative app store.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#135

Post by olliej »

chomp wrote: post #2

Sudden outbreak of common sense. I hope this passes and forces Google/Apple to justify the value that their app stores provide, for the amount that they take from developers.

No, the value the store provides is the SDK. Just as Unity requires you to license IP, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the is going away, only now developers get to bypass sandbox restrictions and access user data.

From the users point of view side loading allows only a reduction in security. All those tracking restrictions? App Store submission policy. All those raw data access protections? App Store rejecting sandbox features that are unsafe.

There is a reason malware is a huge problem on android but not on iOS.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#136

Post by Apocryphon »

sudosysgen wrote: post #57
e4e78a06 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android already has side loading, and Epic tried and failed to get a third party store going. I highly doubt this bill will do anything unless it mandates that Google can't mandate Google Play Store as a condition of receiving development support.

F-Droid, Amazon, Samsung, and multiple Chinese companies are operating third-party stores with a fair amount of success.

F-Droid is great for hackers- a niche subset. Chinese app stores are a special case because of legal and political separation. How successful are Amazon or Samsung's app stores, and do they actually host any popular apps that users can't get on the Play Store?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#137

Post by olliej »

dmz73 wrote: post #127
anonymouse008 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I paid for Apple's centralization, by buying their products, and now that's being forcefully removed from me. How is this ok?

Apple's centralization is not forcefully removed, you can choose to keep using only Apple approved software from Apple store and you will not see any difference. This change would just allows you to install software from another source if you wish. If Apple implements the change similar to how Android works, you will have to allow installation from non-Apple store sources, you can do it per app, you can do it once an…

we already know it causes malware. Android has demonstrated this very clearly.

You also can't retroactively undo a security hole: once you've installed malicious software the other software on the system by definition can't be trusted.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#138

Post by jahewson »

monopoliessuck wrote: post #93

I blame consumers for the duopoly we have. I get that practically, it's a farce to call this choice we have real and significant but these marketplaces exist because of the demand. Making this duopoly more convenient for app-makers only kicks the can and further re-enforces the duopoly. In an ideal world, people would fund projects like the PinePhone or PostMarketOS, but our "solution" to the walled-garden is apparen…

The essence of what you’re saying is:

People should want something they don’t want.

Because…

People who want to make that thing would like a job making it.

But it’s backwards, you can’t say that people “should” be a certain way you have to look at how they actually are.

Being passionate about building something does not convey a right to a job doing that. It makes for a fine hobby - but outside of that build something people want.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#139

Post by anonymouse008 »

andrewjl wrote: post #86
anonymouse008 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I paid for Apple's centralization, by buying their products, and now that's being forcefully removed from me. How is this ok?

How is it forcefully being removed from you?

I purchased my goods with the express contract that the AppStore will be the only way a developer gets access to Apple's APIs, Libraries, and instruction sets for iPhone.

That's the thesis for a treatise I could write. This breaks the contract I had with them upon purchase.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#140

Post by Apocryphon »

echelon wrote: post #108
roughly wrote: post #97

If anyone actually thinks we’re going to be in an objectively better spot in 2 years because of this bill, I encourage you to take a real good look around at the actual world we actually live in. Things I guarantee you will see because of this: 1. You will have six different app stores on your phone. The Apple one, the Facebook one, the Google one, the Epic one, and at least two more, probably one from Disney and one…

> You will have six different app stores on your phone. The Apple one, the Facebook one, the Google one, the Epic one, [...] Let me turn this on its head. If you don't want Facebook, you're free not to download it. > You live in a world in which large predators want to devour you and small predators want to gnaw on you Right now Apple is that large predator. They take 30% (wtf!), have to examine all deploys (nevermin…

If anything, it seems like the public is shifting its interest away from Facebook, thus obviating the demand for a Meta App Store to begin with!
Post reply on HN