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Red Light Green Light

jamessevedge.com

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Re: Red Light Green Light

#131

Post by matsemann »

mcv wrote: post #122
matsemann wrote: post #110

My take after reading this is a bit different than the others. I think it's absolutely insane that a three year old has to learn traffic rules to not be mauled to death by passing cars. What a fail of society.

A 3 year old shouldn't be in traffic unsupervised of course, but it can't hurt to help them understand what's going on around them. Even at age 3, kids are interested in that stuff. And eventually they do have to learn this, and by the time they're old enough to be in traffic unsupervised, they should already know it. So you start early.

> And eventually they do have to learn this

Yes. But they shouldn't have to. It's just a testament to how car-infected society is, that you have to move around based on their demands. Why should a car be able to drive straight through my street, while I have to go out of my way to find a safe crossing? It should be the opposite.

Re: Red Light Green Light

#132

Post by eurekin »

teekert wrote: post #129

I wish I wrote down all these kinds of things my kids have said. One thing I remember is my daughter explaining, full of confidence, to her brother that in summer the ice sinks to the bottom of the canal and it comes up in winter. Which is a very good hypothesis if you don’t know about phase changes in matter. Kids always say these kinds of things because the models of the world in their little heads are incomplete.…

I'm always amazed at kids ability to quickly build hypotheses and communicate them. The one you mentioned is actually a great one and I wish people wouldn't stop doing that after they grow up. I find it very similar to what actual scientist do on the frontiers of knowledge, where no one really knows, what correct really is - yet.

I wonder how the kid would react, if they saw the bottom of the canal in summer somehow -- missing the ice

Re: Red Light Green Light

#133

Post by [deleted] »

skrebbel wrote: post #100
aeternum wrote: post #15

Similar things happen surprisingly often in companies. Many intense arguments can be diffused by first being specific about what we agree upon. Just to add to this, one strategy from the rationalist community that I rarely see practiced is to 'taboo' certain words. For example if two engineers are arguing about a solution not being scalable, taboo the word scalable. They both re-explain their POV without using the wo…

A great word to taboo in hardware tech is "performance". I once witnessed a very heated argument among a group of programmers discussing some code on a microcontroller. Half of them thought the performance was abysmal. The other half thought the performance was great. To everybody it was obvious to see what the performance was, why were the other half being so bone-headed about it? Turned out the first group were tra…

[deleted]

Re: Red Light Green Light

#134

Post by Chris2048 »

aeternum wrote: post #15

Similar things happen surprisingly often in companies. Many intense arguments can be diffused by first being specific about what we agree upon. Just to add to this, one strategy from the rationalist community that I rarely see practiced is to 'taboo' certain words. For example if two engineers are arguing about a solution not being scalable, taboo the word scalable. They both re-explain their POV without using the wo…

Of relevance, the adjective "clean": https://www.steveonstuff.com/2022/01/27/no-such-thing-as-cle...

Re: Red Light Green Light

#135

Post by beaker52 »

aeternum wrote: post #15

Similar things happen surprisingly often in companies. Many intense arguments can be diffused by first being specific about what we agree upon. Just to add to this, one strategy from the rationalist community that I rarely see practiced is to 'taboo' certain words. For example if two engineers are arguing about a solution not being scalable, taboo the word scalable. They both re-explain their POV without using the wo…

I've often remarked at how common it is to hear two people talking about completely different things using the same words, thinking they're both understanding each other. Communication could be something that we think we're better at than maybe we actually are.

Re: Red Light Green Light

#136

Post by hwers »

QuadrupleA wrote: post #87

Sorry to be a curmudgeon, it's a poetic little story - but isn't the takeaway a little banal? "Different people have different perspectives." Well sure. "Consider things from others' viewpoints." Of course. I don't know, it rings a little of management-ese, or something overpaid consultants might present in the boardroom that gets everybody nodding their head and feeling like they've received great wisdom, but is a l…

Yeah, posts like this getting a lot of upvotes makes me feel like I don't understand how humans operate these days anymore.

Re: Red Light Green Light

#137

Post by mcv »

matsemann wrote: post #131
mcv wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 3 year old shouldn't be in traffic unsupervised of course, but it can't hurt to help them understand what's going on around them. Even at age 3, kids are interested in that stuff. And eventually they do have to learn this, and by the time they're old enough to be in traffic unsupervised, they should already know it. So you start early.

> And eventually they do have to learn this Yes. But they shouldn't have to. It's just a testament to how car-infected society is, that you have to move around based on their demands. Why should a car be able to drive straight through my street, while I have to go out of my way to find a safe crossing? It should be the opposite.

That is absolutely true. I'm all for car-free spaces, and an abundance of safe crossings. Although for any crossing, "safe" still depends on the responsibility of the car driver; I always point out to my kids that even if they do have right on way on a zebra crossing, they still need to watch both ways.

Still, cars or not, there will always be dangers, and you're always going to have to teach kids how to deal with them. I live in a former docks area; lots of water, and my youngest still doesn't have a swimming diploma, for example. And even bikes can hurt you if you are careless around bike paths.

Re: Red Light Green Light

#139

Post by rtpg »

QuadrupleA wrote: post #87

Sorry to be a curmudgeon, it's a poetic little story - but isn't the takeaway a little banal? "Different people have different perspectives." Well sure. "Consider things from others' viewpoints." Of course. I don't know, it rings a little of management-ese, or something overpaid consultants might present in the boardroom that gets everybody nodding their head and feeling like they've received great wisdom, but is a l…

My takeaway (and something I've been thinking about regarding precision in communication) is that people often believe to be talking about the same thing, yet will be talking about different things.

This is super frequent, especially in more heated discussions, and it leads me to want to look at writing things precisely, even the banal stuff, so that we can actually figure out what is going on. This is especially helpful in the "I can't believe you actually think that" cases

Re: Red Light Green Light

#140

Post by teekert »

eurekin wrote: post #132
teekert wrote: post #129

I wish I wrote down all these kinds of things my kids have said. One thing I remember is my daughter explaining, full of confidence, to her brother that in summer the ice sinks to the bottom of the canal and it comes up in winter. Which is a very good hypothesis if you don’t know about phase changes in matter. Kids always say these kinds of things because the models of the world in their little heads are incomplete.…

I'm always amazed at kids ability to quickly build hypotheses and communicate them. The one you mentioned is actually a great one and I wish people wouldn't stop doing that after they grow up. I find it very similar to what actual scientist do on the frontiers of knowledge, where no one really knows, what correct really is - yet. I wonder how the kid would react, if they saw the bottom of the canal in summer somehow…

Yeah exactly, I always try to (make them) come up with an experiment that would show if they’re right or not. Honestly it’s a challenge and my wife always points out that the kids have stopped listening. I need to learn to stay brief… It just happens so little that I get too excited when it does.
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