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U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

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Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#131

I worked for a company that did this. It was (and still is) a complete disaster. They've been around for 5 years and still haven't released a product. If you're going to do this, you'd better have an enormous pile of tasks that can be independently handled and programmatically verified. And just assume that communication between your US team and foreign teams will be nonexistent, it's best to set expectations low ins…

You company basically did everything wrong.

Remote teams that are selected well can be a pleasure to work with for everybody involved.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#132
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Universities aren't reliably producing CS graduates that can code." And companies stereotype all graduates as worth nothing to them. I had a couple simple Android apps when I graduated. Even though they were simple, it would show that I could follow best practices, code, test, and deliver something. I had a decent GPA (3.5), clubs, etc. I still had a hard time finding companies that would even give me an interview.…

How are you on leetcode?

I believe LC wasn't a thing back then, or at least not mainstream.

I don't waste my time on LC now. If I get free time, I'd rather work on a personal project or hobby.

Granted, I'm actually thinking of moving into some sort of corporate strategy analyst role since I don't really get to code anymore. The past 2 years has been very little coding or business problem solving. It's mostly been config, infrastructure, prod support, and meetings/paperwork. I'm tired of it. I want to solve problems and build substantial things. I assume I'm rusty when it comes to coding now.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#133
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities aren't reliably producing CS graduates that can code. If a student enters a collegiate program with some interest or experience in programming, then they're likely to come out of it with solid skills and find some opportunities. If an employer has the resources to select from the best that universities have to offer, then they can find great candidates. But for us that aren't working for FAANG, a univers…

Universities today seem to be focusing on quantity of education not quality There goal is to get as much student loan money that they can, they do not seem to care about the quality of education the students are getting This goes for all levels of universities, and all degree programs.

Universities were never job training programs, their product has always been the right to engage in class signaling. By paying the university a pile of money you signified to potential employers (and everyone else) that you were a member of at least the upper middle class, with the financial resources (and sometimes family connections) to support making those payments of time and money. Not having that signifier was a signal that you lacked the time and money to dump into that effort, given that you had to spend so much of it surviving.

It's the same human impulse that drives people to bind their feet, value bleached skin, engage in conspicuous consumption, etc. It's all an elaborate signal game designed to convince people of your social status.

The problem is that we looked at that system and instead of trying to build something better we dumped more money into it in the form of student loans and expected that now more people will be given access to those class signifiers and thereby raise their social status and standard of living. In actual practice, of course, what we did was raise the bar on what qualifies as a class signifier, forcing a generation into wage slavery with little real benefit to them or to society as a whole (other than those institutions who siphon off those extra dollars and use them to metastasize extra layers of administration and management to little effect)

What we need is for education to be more job skills training and less social positioning. Funding for adult education should be linked to the success rate of students leaving those programs. If you have the money to burn studying topics that will indicate to your peers how little you need the money, then great. That's apparently the way we've decided to structure things. For the rest of us though let's try to encourage study of topics that will help society work better instead of vainly trying to convince the rich kids club to let us in.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what university students in the U.S. and abroad have been faced with. Most engineers with a paycheck simply don't get the problem. Competition is higher now than ever for entry, companies do not want to hire graduates, they do not want to invest resources into them. They want the maximum amount of short term profit possible. Build things fast, sell them, next project. We are racing to the bottom and t…

Universities aren't reliably producing CS graduates that can code. If a student enters a collegiate program with some interest or experience in programming, then they're likely to come out of it with solid skills and find some opportunities. If an employer has the resources to select from the best that universities have to offer, then they can find great candidates. But for us that aren't working for FAANG, a univers…

I've interviewed a lot of software engineer candidates. It's always surprising how often people with impressive resumes, including computer science degrees from good-to-great universities, can't code at all.

I'm not talking about trick "do you remember A* search" questions. I'm talking about the ability to write a basic program and to reason about what it will do.

I've seen this across the gamut, from new grads to staff engineers.

Part of this is selection bias: those folks probably apply to many companies before they slip through somewhere, so they're overrepresented as interviewees.

My sense is that it's becoming more common. Undergrad CS has ever more people who are in it for reasons unrelated to enjoyment or curiosity.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will vary based on where you are in the talent pool. Tech talent distribution is tri-modal [0]. The demand for the kind of people who can comfortably be part of the rightmost peak (and even moreso, its right tail) is increasing rapidly. As tech gets better the leverage high performance individuals have gets bigger, not smaller. I'm less hopeful for people in the leftmost peak or middle peaks. For decades t…

I feel like that article just affirmed my position though. An Uber job that would've been $400k in SF is now $250k in NL. You might think "Wow Group 3 is growing, good for us workers," but the absolute peak of Group 3 is falling.

Yeah, as the other reply said, that 400k L5a (Senior I) Uber job in SF is now paying 580k first year & ~520k/year annualized over 4 years (increased stock grants, large sign-on bonuses, front-loaded vesting). Amazon increased the top of their mid-level payband by ~100k and the top of their senior payband by ~200k. 500k/year is the new "target" senior comp at FAANG & co (where previously 350-400k was what you were looking for). The international numbers are playing catch-up but it's not really slowing things down very much in the US.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what university students in the U.S. and abroad have been faced with. Most engineers with a paycheck simply don't get the problem. Competition is higher now than ever for entry, companies do not want to hire graduates, they do not want to invest resources into them. They want the maximum amount of short term profit possible. Build things fast, sell them, next project. We are racing to the bottom and t…

Universities aren't reliably producing CS graduates that can code. If a student enters a collegiate program with some interest or experience in programming, then they're likely to come out of it with solid skills and find some opportunities. If an employer has the resources to select from the best that universities have to offer, then they can find great candidates. But for us that aren't working for FAANG, a univers…

Currently in a Canadian college for cybersecurity and the content of the courses are being nerfed and the quality of the graduates are churning out are largely dogshit.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#137
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't mediocre be generally acceptable? It seems unreal to expect the majority to be above average.

Problem is, if you are outsourcing remotely, you want someone who is quite competent for him to be able to work on his own and pick up on the lack of face to face meetings. Mediocre as a result will give less than mediocre results or no results.

Or there's a need for communication. It doesn't matter if the person is "quite competent" if they're on their own building something that doesn't fit the requirements. An average dev shouldn't have any issue being able to Google the occasional problem. The vast majority of the issue we have with outsourced work is subpar English communication.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#138

It’s not just Latin America. It’s also Canada, most of Europe, it’s India, Asia, and I’m hearing Africa also experiencing a similar pull. There’s a global talent shortage for experienced people in software engineering, and it’s spilling over everywhere. Remote work becoming the norm thanks to the pandemic, plus the rise of services like Remote.com, Deel and similar ones is making it much easier to hire remotely in mo…

Reminder, every “talent shortage” is actually a wage shortage. Double those salaries and you’ll find plenty of talent.

Not neccessarily. Say there's 3 million competent senior software engineers in the US, and 75% of them are already working as senior SWEs (the remaining 25% are in early retirement or have switched professions). The best that doubling wages in short term can accomplish is makes those 25% of people move back to the profession.

As for people who don't know how to code retraining to be SWEs - since becoming a "senior software engineer" takes at least 5 years, you'd have to wait 5 years to see a result, irrespective of how much you increase the wages.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#139

It’s not just Latin America. It’s also Canada, most of Europe, it’s India, Asia, and I’m hearing Africa also experiencing a similar pull. There’s a global talent shortage for experienced people in software engineering, and it’s spilling over everywhere. Remote work becoming the norm thanks to the pandemic, plus the rise of services like Remote.com, Deel and similar ones is making it much easier to hire remotely in mo…

Reminder, every “talent shortage” is actually a wage shortage. Double those salaries and you’ll find plenty of talent.

This is not actually entirely true (although I've had similar sentiments in the past).

The question is, how inelastic is supply? "Labor of a senior software developer" isn't like "a widget" in that you can pretty simply create more of them. It takes years and special training to create senior software developers.

This means the supply is inelastic over the short term, although in the long term more people get the education to become one.

That means that doubling salaries might not have the effect you predict.

Re: U.S. companies are hiring Latin America’s tech talent

#140
post #109

The headline says "pillaging," which is a kind of stealing by force. But actually (as the less editorialized HN headline says) what the US companies are doing is hiring Latin America's tech talent, paying a fair price instead of the shitty prices Latin American companies are used to paying. Unsurprisingly these companies think of Latin American developers as their property, so they see it as "pillaging". Because I'm…

I'm a half-retired Argentinian developer still living in Argentina. I second the parent comment 100%
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