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Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

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Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#131

Post by caeril »

falcolas wrote: post #111
ryandrake wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are going to find, when the dust settles and this whole era gets studied, that we pinned way too much hope on vaccines and masks and way, WAAY too little was invested in 1. Overall health / Not being obese, 2. General hygiene and staying home when sick, and 3. Avoiding crowds and indoor gatherings. And I say this as one of HN’s huge and unashamed vaccine cheerleaders. Everyone wants that easy pill (or shot…

If we couldn't get people to wear masks in public regularly, how can we expect them to make an even more significant and life impacting change that could better their health?

I'm not sure, but since we've already crossed the Rubicon of denying free association and ability to conduct business on the basis of arbitrary medical status, there's no longer any reason we can't deny the right to purchase calories to those who have clearly consumed too many of them.

BMI mandates and passports to grocery stores and restaurants: yes it's evil, but we've already decided that this particular abrogation of rights is a moral good. So, fuck it. Starve the fatties. The precedent is set, we can do whatever we want if we scream "public health" loudly enough.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#133

Post by digsy »

TMWNN wrote: post #126
slg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They were told they were getting a vaccine... their definition of vaccine doesn't include still getting the disease, but just a little less sever (which, incidentally has NOT been the case for a lot of them). That doesn't make sense to them or me if I am being honest. Hasn't this always been the case with the flu shot which I imagine many if not most people in a retirement home have been getting for years?

Flu shots have been around for years, and by now people understand that the effectiveness greatly varies each year, but never being anywhere close to 100%. COVID19 vaccines, on the other hand, were (contrary to today's frantic efforts to pretend otherwise) always sold as being a) >90% protection and b) ending the pandemic once enough people were vaccinated.

They were sold as >90% effective when introduced.

But it was made abundantly clear that the original vaccines were less effective against newer strains.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#134

Post by [deleted] »

slg wrote: post #78
buscoquadnary wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I saw it the other way around, when it was first came out the future was uncertain, and there was a lot of confusion the only data we had was untrusted reports from China, I saw a lot of people band together, people looking out for on another general expressions of concern. There were politics involved but it was relatively mild, and ignored by many people it was about two or three months in when much of the…

I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way that many on HN constantly seem to imply that the polarization and politicization of the pandemic was caused by the media, scientists, public health officials or anyone else but the last president and many people in his administration. They were immediately trying to shift blame to anyone but themselves. It was the "China virus" from pretty much day 1. He was literally cros…

[deleted]

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#135

Post by falcolas »

caeril wrote: post #131
falcolas wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we couldn't get people to wear masks in public regularly, how can we expect them to make an even more significant and life impacting change that could better their health?

I'm not sure, but since we've already crossed the Rubicon of denying free association and ability to conduct business on the basis of arbitrary medical status, there's no longer any reason we can't deny the right to purchase calories to those who have clearly consumed too many of them. BMI mandates and passports to grocery stores and restaurants: yes it's evil, but we've already decided that this particular abrogatio…

> we've already crossed the Rubicon of denying free association and ability to conduct business

We’ve always had this. And its been strongly protected for centuries. And this isn't even the first time its been applied to health (lepers, plague victims, tuberculosis, measles, etc).

Its the right of the business to not associate with someone, for pretty much any reason. A person, outside of government owned businesses, has no inherent right to associate with a business.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#136

Post by hammock »

epakai wrote: post #112
mathwords wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with the tests. All it says is that the test said positive or negative. It in no way tells you anything about how bad your Covid is, how far along it is, and if you can spread it to others. The tests are a last minute cash grab. Stop getting tested and this thing ends. (However I know a bunch of folks who have to be tested anyway because they didn’t want to be boosted, despite getting the initial vax)

Absurd. "Stop going to the hospital and this thing ends" is on the same level. Cash flow has nothing to do with virus spread. It's interesting to consider misaligned incentives but you are alleging something much more serious without giving any credence to the actual purpose of testing.

>Cash flow has nothing to do with virus spread.

Not wrong, however cash flow does have something to do with hospitalizations and covid death counts. Hospitals get subsidized for admitted covid patients and for covid deaths.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#137

Post by errcorrectcode »

keneda7 wrote: post #127
errcorrectcode wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular observation: if an ebola-deadly, vaccine-effective variant comes along, it would hopefully wipe out enough of those who are too dumb to take care of themselves or impetuously refuse vaccines. Modern life and medicine is too safe to select for common sense or intelligence.

Have you even considered that this is what many people who have not taken the vaccine are waiting for? They are going to go get the vaccine when this deadly strains comes out. It is no secret MRNA vaccines do not last. It was known before COVID and no miraculous break through occurred that fixed this this issue they have. Previous MRNA vaccines applicants also showed you cannot just keep reinjecting yourself every x…

> Previous MRNA [sic] vaccines applicants also showed you cannot just keep reinjecting yourself every x months.

> So its seems the people not vaccinated will have an option to actually get protected, not so much for those that have taken it already though.

This is utter hogwash horseshit. Let me guess. You watch InfoWars, OAN, and Fox News. You need some better "alternative facts" that include how long vaccines take to generate neutralizing antibodies and how long they last.

* Instead, countries should leave more time between booster programs and tie them to the onset of the cold season in each hemisphere, following the blueprint set out by influenza vaccination strategies, the agency said.*

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-bo...

Maybe when you learn to read and quote things fairly, you won't look like such a dummy.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#138

Post by kthejoker2 »

Axien wrote: post #48
codyb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one really enjoy the vaccine mandate in NYC. I feel much more comfortable knowing that if I catch it going out (seems likely), I'll be unlikely to spread it to anyone unvaccinated causing serious disease. Of course I'm also boosted and got my flu shot (and do it every year), so I'm probably already more conscientious living in NYC than many. If someone uses a fake to get in... well... there's only so much I can…

So someone else’s freedoms should be limited so you can feel “comfortable”?

Uhh yes? Rights conflict with rights all the time, we've already agreed that we have foregone certain rights in certain scenarios ("strict scrutiny") for the safety and welfare of the whole.

You have to wear pants, you can't drive at night without headlights, you can't sit in a restaurant yelling F*K at the top of your lungs in between bites, you have to get a permit to hold a music festival on the street, you can't post political signs on my property ...

Man is born free and eveywhere in chains, literally this is a solved problem from 260 years ago.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#139

Post by kcplate »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #87
nvelty wrote: post #24

This is a direct result of the (intentionally) punitive nature of vaccine mandates. Broad, heavy-handed actions by the government are the classic spark for societal backlash. A softer approach that focused on positive benefits for having a vax pass versus punishing unvaxxed would probably had better results. Instead, we've pushed (presumably) otherwise law-abiding citizens into using forged documents. This directly u…

We had a big issue way before the vaccine mandates thanks to the absurdity of right-wing media and right-wing politicians' conspiracy theories. And subsequent pushing of ineffective treatments. There are still people here in the US who believe that ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, z-packs, and steroids will save them if they get it. And they're unvaccinated. My friend's sibling just died two months ago. Otherwise heal…

> We had a big issue way before the vaccine mandates thanks to the absurdity of right-wing media and right-wing politicians' conspiracy theories

Honestly, I feel like the pandemic politics predated all the right wing conspiracy theories emergence. The democrats/progressive left/resisters decision to make Covid the central issue to oust Trump is the more likely genesis. Very early on (Jan/Feb 2020) everything the Trump administration was doing was met with immediate 180 degree resistance from the progressive left and the left-leaning media. Including things they later supported—Travel bans, social distancing suggestions and yes, even the vaccine too.

Before I get accused of being a conservative or a Trumpie…I’m not and far far from it. But…I am not willing to excuse problematic approaches that have negative downstream unintended consequences even if the initial intention may have been positive.

Blaming the right is akin to being mad when the person you punched in the nose decides to fight back. How dare they!

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#140

Post by kcplate »

rrix2 wrote: post #23
pyronik19 wrote: post #11

Best form of civil disobedience for these authoritarian and I would argue unlawful government mandates.

Quoted post unavailable.

No, I don’t buy this “pull the heartstrings to protect grandma” fallacy. For it to be true, the vaccines would have to be highly effective at preventing infection and these vaccines are not highly effective at preventing infections. The Covid vaccine protections stop at the vaccinated individual, with perhaps a side benefit of easing some healthcare system stress due to severe disease prevention.

Also, plenty of studies are out that now that show that the infected, whether vaccinated or not have statistically equivalent viral shedding. You are equally contagious whether vaccinated or not.

If you are that immuno-compromised, you need to take whatever precautions you need to do to protect yourself and not place that responsibility on anyone else.

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