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Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

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Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#131

Post by bsenftner »

anthropodie wrote: post #76

Three months ago I picked up new hobby: Self Hosting. It has been an amazing ride. I learned a lot and I also get peace of mind knowing I am in control of my data. I understand that there is no self-hosted alternative for certain SaaS services but I think that will change as more and more people choose to be in control of their data. This is a good place to start https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted

More people need to experience self hosting. It is liberating, and it casts a super nova spotlight on how over priced cloud offerings really are. And if you investigate a bit, you may find you can get Business Internet service to your home; that means you have symmetric upload and download speeds, typically at least 2oo mbps or higher, able to run servers from home and completely experience the joy and power of the Internet at a small fraction of the expense if attempting the same through a cloud provider.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#132

Post by JasonFruit »

I have a solution! I subscribe to Spotify and a spelling practice app for my children. Anything else, I buy outright or use free software. I will not pay for a subscription when there's any other option.

Of course, my first sentence is a lie, because it only works if everyone would just do what I do, and at no time in the history of humanity has everyone just, so I have no solution.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#133

Post by irutirw222 »

porcoda wrote: post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

The problem I have with this post, is that it's assuming erroneously the "eternal development" mindset. Once a software has reached maturity, beaides (very rare) security fixes there is not much that needs to be done to it. Is anyone seeing LaTeX receiving feature updates all the time? Or grep or vim in need of continuous updates? No! And MSO, which was mentioned here multiple times, also has reached maturity decades ago. So the "dev needs to be payed" argument is wrong. Correct is: "while the software is not yet mature enough, dev needs to be payed". The problem with predatory subscription is that they usually kick in for mature software, when there is justification any more for paying fictitious work (perhaps that's why MS change the UI every few years, because hey, new UI lurea gullible customera while also making us look as if we actually do some programming here).

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#135

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

chii wrote: post #71
beowulfey wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would still gladly pay for updates—nobody expected to get updates for free, we always did it that way before. My impression is that the AppStore model, with the updates provided for free (for bug fixes, etc) is what began that shift to subscriptions. Before the App Store, it wasn’t easy to update software, so it was straightforward to lock updates behind paid upgrades.

> nobody expected to get updates for free if there's a security vulnerability, i'm sure you'd expect the update to be free.

Let's say feature updates make sense to pay for, bug fixes don't.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#136

Post by [deleted] »

baxtr wrote: post #39

I think it is fair to complain about user-hostile and scammy companies. However, I strongly believe selling software with a one-time fee was the problem in the first place. An ongoing service requires ongoing efforts to keep it stable, secure and modern. Just like you pay for housing on a monthly, recurring basis. It's the same with software. btw: the oldest subscription models are insurances. No one is complaining a…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#137

Post by Zak »

cinntaile wrote: post #110
coldtea wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman. Who exactly demanded "free in cost" plus "always receive new features and updates"? If the software companies (in mobile in particular) had a race to the bottom, it's on them - and on those (hobbyists etc) that undercutted them (though, if hobbyists can undercut your prices, is your product really worth that much, or could it just as well be replaced with a hobbyist-made app?). Users have since for…

Isn't a big reason for this development precisely that many didn't pay top dollar? There used to be a lot of Photoshop, Windows and Office warez floating around.

I suspect most of the piracy in those apps was among people who were never the target market. Someone who wants to make funny cat pictures, or even edit photos they took with their $300 point-and-shoot camera isn't going to pay $400 for Photoshop.

Professionals who make their living using Photoshop usually don't have much trouble with the cost, whether paid monthly, or occasionally when a new version has a feature they care about.

Being able to bring in some more casual customers with a lower initial cost is just a bonus.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#138

Post by tempodox »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #88
coldtea wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Blame the victim? We din't get any impression, as we don't set the prices. The companies set those prices. For example Adobe customers never got or set any impression that "software should be free/low price". They paid 100s to 1000s of dollars for each update or package r…

This is not blaming the victim as there are no victims. OP’s is wrong that SaaS is rent sending. Software should not be free (in cost), yet always receive new features and updates. Indeed, the alternative is the ad-tech surveillance state.

Not true. I prefer paying for upgrades on my own schedule to a subscription any day.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#139

Post by [deleted] »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #88
coldtea wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Blame the victim? We din't get any impression, as we don't set the prices. The companies set those prices. For example Adobe customers never got or set any impression that "software should be free/low price". They paid 100s to 1000s of dollars for each update or package r…

This is not blaming the victim as there are no victims. OP’s is wrong that SaaS is rent sending. Software should not be free (in cost), yet always receive new features and updates. Indeed, the alternative is the ad-tech surveillance state.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#140

Post by jpomykala »

wartijn_ wrote: post #117
jpomykala wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I need to increase my prices" /s Or start charging in Euro :D

I wonder what charging in Euro does on the psychological price front. Does €79 look less than $85?

It works, because a few times I was surprised that paid in euro instead dollars.
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