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When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

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Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#131

Post by svnpenn »

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #25
daenz wrote: post #22

Look at the timeline: 1930 - first cigarette company uses physicians in their ads 1950s - evidence starts mounting that smoking causes lung cancer 1964 - US Surgeon General report on the link between smoking and cancer 1998 - cigarette companies still maintained that the link is controversial So it takes 70 years, or nearly an entire generation, before all of the machinery at play (businesses, government, healthcare,…

Labomotomies won the Nobel prize. They were supported by the mainstream medical and science establishments. Rosemary Kennedy, JFKs relative got one. People were giving labotomies to their kids to calm them down, advised by their doctor. Great article on Howard Dulley one of the kids whose parents gave him a lobotomy advised by a doctor. https://www.npr.org/2005/11/16/5014080/my-lobotomy-howard-du...

> Labomotomies

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#132

Post by davidjytang »

daenz wrote: post #22

Look at the timeline: 1930 - first cigarette company uses physicians in their ads 1950s - evidence starts mounting that smoking causes lung cancer 1964 - US Surgeon General report on the link between smoking and cancer 1998 - cigarette companies still maintained that the link is controversial So it takes 70 years, or nearly an entire generation, before all of the machinery at play (businesses, government, healthcare,…

In my culture, one generation is often defined as 30 years. Probably the years between own births to giving births.

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#133

Post by lifeformed »

champagnois wrote: post #120
sockaddr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: How do we reconcile "soy is poison" with the fact that some cultures include massive amounts of soy in their diet with little known detriment? For instance, the Japanese seem to eat tons of the stuff in various forms all the time but they seem to lead healthy lives. I don't have any skin in the game, just curious.

Asian cultures are aware. In China for example, tofu is one of the cheapest possible protein sources (think in terms of a massive pallet of it sold for five dollars) but people are generally aware that it is poisonous in some weird ways that won't kill you. Males are generally urged not to consume it. This could be a knowledge of just the upper class, though. An unspoken suggestion to leave the tofu and soy for the p…

So the vast majority of Asians have disrupted endocrine systems?

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#134

Post by [deleted] »

version_five wrote: post #23
daenz wrote: post #22

Look at the timeline: 1930 - first cigarette company uses physicians in their ads 1950s - evidence starts mounting that smoking causes lung cancer 1964 - US Surgeon General report on the link between smoking and cancer 1998 - cigarette companies still maintained that the link is controversial So it takes 70 years, or nearly an entire generation, before all of the machinery at play (businesses, government, healthcare,…

Yeah who knows what unequivocal advice we could be getting from experts right now that will be thoroughly debunked 70 years from now. (Are dairy and grains still food groups... I could easily go on)

[deleted]

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#135

Post by sooheon »

champagnois wrote: post #120
sockaddr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: How do we reconcile "soy is poison" with the fact that some cultures include massive amounts of soy in their diet with little known detriment? For instance, the Japanese seem to eat tons of the stuff in various forms all the time but they seem to lead healthy lives. I don't have any skin in the game, just curious.

Asian cultures are aware. In China for example, tofu is one of the cheapest possible protein sources (think in terms of a massive pallet of it sold for five dollars) but people are generally aware that it is poisonous in some weird ways that won't kill you. Males are generally urged not to consume it. This could be a knowledge of just the upper class, though. An unspoken suggestion to leave the tofu and soy for the p…

According to this (https://www.otsuka.co.jp/en/nutraceutical/about/soylution/en...) Japan consumes 8.19 kg/year/person of soy, while the US consumes 0.04 kg/year/person. That's 200x difference. Japanese life expectancy is half a decade longer than the US, not to mention 1/10 the obesity.

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#136

Post by Nav_Panel »

KerrAvon wrote: post #114
asdff wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't evidence to suggest cigarette smokers are more likely to catch covid

There is evidence that if you smoke and catch COVID, it will be more severe. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/27/smokers-much...

No evidence of that there. Only that "current smokers were 80% more likely to be admitted to hospital and significantly more likely to die from Covid-19 if they became infected" -- did they control for other factors, that tend to go along with smoking, like obesity (and socioeconomic status)? Where's the link to their paper?

All the genetic stuff too is super suspicious, I would be _shocked_ if "genetic predisposition to smoking" had no impact whatsoever on any other variable that could cause more severe COVID.

Here's some actual studies:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33420786/

> We conducted a cross-sectional, observational study on the 1769 sailors of the same navy aircraft carrier at sea exposed at the same time to SARS-CoV2 to investigate the link between tobacco consumption and Covid-19.

> Current smoking status was associated with a lower risk of developing Covid-19 but cannot be considered as efficient protection against infection. The mechanism of the lower susceptibility of smokers to SARS-CoV-2 requires further research.

https://harmreductionjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1...

> A total of 7162 patients were included, with 482 being smokers. The POR was 0.24 (95%CI 0.19–0.30). Unlike the original study, the association between smoking and disease severity was not statistically significant using random-effects meta-analysis (OR 1.40, 95%CI 0.98–1.98). In agreement with the original study, no statistically significant association was found between smoking and mortality (OR 1.86, 95%CI 0.88–3.94).

> An unusually low prevalence of smoking, approximately 1/4th the expected prevalence, was observed among hospitalized COVID-19 patients. Any association between smoking and COVID-19 severity cannot be generalized but should refer to the seemingly low proportion of smokers who develop severe COVID-19 that requires hospitalization. Smokers should be advised to quit due to long-term health risks, but pharmaceutical nicotine or other nicotinic cholinergic agonists should be explored as potential therapeutic options, based on a recently presented hypothesis.

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#137

Post by jjeaff »

Melatonic wrote: post #82
champagnois wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is just completely BS Legumes are great for you - keep eating them. Obviously don't eat some super processed soybean adjacent "food".

Apparently, the least processed forms of soybean contain the most endocrine disrupting substance.

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#138

Post by crumpled »

daenz wrote: post #22

Look at the timeline: 1930 - first cigarette company uses physicians in their ads 1950s - evidence starts mounting that smoking causes lung cancer 1964 - US Surgeon General report on the link between smoking and cancer 1998 - cigarette companies still maintained that the link is controversial So it takes 70 years, or nearly an entire generation, before all of the machinery at play (businesses, government, healthcare,…

Big money is playing a long game.

The tech industry is way ahead of any hint of regulations with regards to things like privacy, security or safety. New generations of people are brought unwillingly onto social media by parents. Some problems are hard to reel in by design.

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#139

Post by watwut »

xmprt wrote: post #109
daenz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>After the Second World War, the German research was effectively silenced due to perceived associations with Nazism That's really interesting. I dug a little more into it[0]. Apparently the underlying reasoning was that the Nazis associated smoking with "degenerates" and damage to "bodily purity." So when the research hit the US, people must have associated anti-smoking with those Nazi ideas. I wonder if tobacco comp…

That tradition hasn't died out yet. There are a ton of common sense things done in many European countries that aren't implemented in the US because of apparent links to "communism."

It is different, because USA was never communist country. And those who argue by "it is like communistm" typically have only very superficial understanding of history of Comunism and of culture it had. Or none at all often.

Re: When cigarette companies used doctors to push smoking (2018)

#140

Post by inter_netuser »

version_five wrote: post #46
csdvrx wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read above, ulcerative colitis. Chemicals are just tools.

I'd be very suspicious of a claim that even if some compound(s) in tobacco smoke help with ulcerative colitis or any condition, that the clinical recommendation is to take up smoking cigarettes. But I'm open to being proven wrong

You'd probably change your mind as soon as you'd receive a devastating diagnosis, such as parkinson's.

if you knew, that nicotine could at least potentially arrest the progression, how sick would you need to get before you would try nicotine patches?

would you rather wait until you are unable to walk, talk, eat, wear adult diapers, but never ever attempt anything on your own?

"clinical recommendation" is nothing more than an OPINION, not some eternal dogma to be venerated.

Marijuana is being used medicinally en masse in many countries today. Still not a "clinical recommendation" in the US, and even an absolutely illegal drug with apparently no known medicinal use, but somehow thousands of epileptic kids manage to control their disease with Charlotte's Webb.

Strange how official "recommendation" can be total lies, no?

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