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Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

calcalistech.com

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Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#131

Post by Starlevel001 »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #107
Barrin92 wrote: post #17

People used to quip that Prussia is an army with a country rather than the other way around, it seems like if you add the modern intelligence sector that describes Israel. With all the concerns about 'Military-civil fusion ' as it's called in China or Russia I always found it funny that Israel might as well be the country that has merged both spheres most successfully but nobody really seems to care at all.

This is ignoring some minor details, like that Israel had to fight some real frigging wars over its bare existence, and is still facing a regional power that calls for its extinction. Looks like Israel isn't getting too much love, at least not here at HN. I maintain that we in Israel are still a very normal, western type society, if you take all these rather extreme circumstances into consideration (and, in addition,…

No post body was provided.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#132

Post by hunterb123 »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #107
Barrin92 wrote: post #17

People used to quip that Prussia is an army with a country rather than the other way around, it seems like if you add the modern intelligence sector that describes Israel. With all the concerns about 'Military-civil fusion ' as it's called in China or Russia I always found it funny that Israel might as well be the country that has merged both spheres most successfully but nobody really seems to care at all.

This is ignoring some minor details, like that Israel had to fight some real frigging wars over its bare existence, and is still facing a regional power that calls for its extinction. Looks like Israel isn't getting too much love, at least not here at HN. I maintain that we in Israel are still a very normal, western type society, if you take all these rather extreme circumstances into consideration (and, in addition,…

If it's any consolation, these comments here do not reflect a general opinion and liberal leaning places seem to have this anti-Israel agenda, and it seems to be more prominent recently. Maybe I'm just paying more attention.

That's not to say everything is perfect, no country is. But in perspective of everyone's actions in the region I support Israel overall.

I don't want to get into a political flamewar, just wanted to offer my support. I disagree with the premise of many opinions here about Israel.

Note that I'm not talking about people that are talking objectively about this specific event, I'm talking about the comments calling Israel an apartheid state, marriage, etc.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#133

Post by IAmEveryone »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #107
Barrin92 wrote: post #17

People used to quip that Prussia is an army with a country rather than the other way around, it seems like if you add the modern intelligence sector that describes Israel. With all the concerns about 'Military-civil fusion ' as it's called in China or Russia I always found it funny that Israel might as well be the country that has merged both spheres most successfully but nobody really seems to care at all.

This is ignoring some minor details, like that Israel had to fight some real frigging wars over its bare existence, and is still facing a regional power that calls for its extinction. Looks like Israel isn't getting too much love, at least not here at HN. I maintain that we in Israel are still a very normal, western type society, if you take all these rather extreme circumstances into consideration (and, in addition,…

Your justification is fully compatible with the observed phenomenon as described. The comment didn’t criticize Israel, although the possible criticism so obviously follows from the description that your mind added it all by itself.

That, in a way, is also quite telling.

I’m not sure if the definition of democracy is flexible enough to include non-democracies as long as they bring a note to class giving a good reason. If Israel’s situation does really require essentially doing away with democratic norms, it’s somewhat delusional to still afford it that label, as a sort of temporarily-but-forever-slightly-embarrassed-democracy that protects its citizens’ rights as long as it’s convenient to do so.

But I doubt that state is actually necessary. There has just been too much Austrian-style corruption in the last decade not to suspect some of that to be also in play here.

Let’s wait and see how many politicians of the opposition were targeted in these programs. Because that would be the immediate end to any claims of justification.

Edit: and just to be sure: nobody doubts that Israel is far better than the usual comparisons, i. e. its neighbors and China. It’s just because Israel is considered to be among “the good ones” that it gets criticized more readily. Both because the distance b/w expectations and reality is larger than elsewhere, and because criticism among peers is usually more effective than it is among strangers.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#134

Post by yonixw »

tsimionescu wrote: post #121
yonixw wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the UN (since 1/1/10): [1] x18 in favor of Israelis... 220-vs-4032. Most of the Palestinians (3000) were killed in Gaza. Which bring me back to my original point. Israel gave Gaza control to the Palestinians in 2005 only to wake up the next year to find Hamas taking control and later starting to shoot rockets at Israeli civilians. All the power and support they gain only mounted to terror. I will acknowl…

Is Egypt occupying the Gaza strip, and controlling what enters the strip over water or air? Are they allowing one nationality to cross the border and not another (not that there are too many people of Jewish decent left in the Gaza strip)? And, how is the fact that for every Palestinian terrorist Israel killed 10 civilians Palestine's fault? Also, Israel didn't "give Gaza control to the Palestinians" in 2005, they on…

> and controlling what enters the strip ...

Unironically Yes!!!! Egypt do! Happy you see how mind boggling it is that there are others who deny access to the Gaza strip. (Again, because of their gov - Hamas)

> x10 Palestine's fault?

Who said that? It was during a war. It is because Israel has stronger weapons. A war that shouldn't ever started. Why did Hamas start it? You are really dodging the question here...

> Also, Israel didn't "give Gaza control to the Palestinians" in 2005,

They gave them military control and government control. So you are wrong, read Wikipedia again. Otherwise how do they get rockets if the are so limited? Looks like they could get anything but choses to get terror related assets... which again. Is their fault.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#135

Post by KennyBlanken »

alphakilo wrote: post #38
terr-dav wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a democracy of the first-class citizens only. Don't forget it's an apartheid state!

All Israelis have equal rights, why do you say Israel an apartheid state?

Equal rights apart from not being able to "lease" ~15% of the total land area in the country which is owned by a religious organization that does not lease land to non-Jewish people.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#136

Post by ForgotMyPwOops »

friendlydog wrote: post #115

Israel is its own nation and it isn't America's business what it does to its own citizens. However, their tools are used on American without warrants. It would be in our interests as citizens to flag all employees of NSO as spies and try them.

> Israel is its own nation and it isn't America's business what it does to its own citizens.

I would argue that as long as Israel is lobbying the US to make it illegal for Americans to boycott Israel it is in fact our business

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws

> The spread of anti-BDS laws in U.S. states is largely due to the lobbying of the Israel Allies Foundation (IAF), an umbrella group of Israel lobbies headquartered in Jerusalem that has received funding from the Israeli government

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#137

Post by yonixw »

markdown wrote: post #118
yonixw wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You didn't open the link... now did you? 2) "sacrificing his own life" what a poetic gesture ... never thought of a terrorist bomb suiciding as such a beautiful act.

He gave up his own life trying to fight an unwinnable war against genocidal colonising europeans who had taken over his motherland, forced his people into barely habitable camps, and crushed their souls in a decades-long campaign of violence. There's nothing beautiful about it. It's all ugly.

You are a poet...

Now back to reality. They waited to suicide bomb themselves near the maximum available innocent bystanders, to kill as much people. while their leaders hide in their mansions.

They are the scum of the earth. And thankfully, Israel stopped them.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#138

Post by samstave »

sergers wrote: post #124
samstave wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And dont forget to look into the Maxwell Twins - the sisters of Ghislane --> They made initial DB software for the intel community for "tracking financial fraud" and other tracking... They sold this to .gov and supposedly it was in use in the early '00s - and it provided ostensibly access to tracking financial and human trafficking data.. Think of it as a precurser to palantir and such - and there was a bunch of shad…

I did google the Maxwell twins, clicking the second result. Got about halfway through before realising wrong twins.. lol

heh. Sorry, I obviously implied the maxwell twins (RELATED to Robert/Ghislaine)

:-)

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#139

Post by Barrin92 »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #107
Barrin92 wrote: post #17

People used to quip that Prussia is an army with a country rather than the other way around, it seems like if you add the modern intelligence sector that describes Israel. With all the concerns about 'Military-civil fusion ' as it's called in China or Russia I always found it funny that Israel might as well be the country that has merged both spheres most successfully but nobody really seems to care at all.

This is ignoring some minor details, like that Israel had to fight some real frigging wars over its bare existence, and is still facing a regional power that calls for its extinction. Looks like Israel isn't getting too much love, at least not here at HN. I maintain that we in Israel are still a very normal, western type society, if you take all these rather extreme circumstances into consideration (and, in addition,…

I wasn't suggesting any value judgement in my post, I'm not really anti-China or anti-Russia either or anything. But I think the notion that Israel is a Western country is largely owed due to geopolitical alliance, not culture or how its state operates.

I think what does away with that illusion quickly is the fact that Israel has no civil marriage. In Israel, a Jew cannot marry a Muslim, or a Christian. In the US you can find me someone who is more right-wing than Genghis Khan and yet they probably would still find that surprising. Israel is cosmopolitan, in the way the UAE is, but it is not a secular Western state. It doesn't need to be because not being 'Western' doesn't imply being bad at all.

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