Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create? • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#131

Post by Gigachad » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:32 AM UTC

zaik wrote: post #80

bmitc wrote: post #74

This isn't really creativity is it? I like to call stuff like this statistical copying, and indeed, the linked Wikipedia article on GANs says: > Given a training set, this technique learns to generate new data with the same statistics as the training set. There isn't a creative process here nor any creative introspection going on. While the technical results are impressive, this article does not address creativity ev…

> There isn't any AI either. It's machine learning, i.e., statistical models and algorithms. I always thaught those were synonyms.

Purists seem to define AI as anything that is currently too hard for computers. Wasn't long ago that chess engines with no neural networks or machine learning were being called AIs.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#132

Post by plutonorm » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:39 AM UTC

FeepingCreature wrote: post #106

omnicognate wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What else can it be, based as it is in a physical substrate? This is no less shallow reasoning. The question of whether the academic field of statistical modelling already contains the necessary ideas to produce strong AI is not decided, and won't be unless/until somebody makes a strong AI. People have different intuitions about what the answer will be and until it can be determined empirically I suggest treating t…

Sure, but I see no reason to not treat things like GPT-3 and TWDNE as evidence. If it looks like a creativity, and quacks like a creativity, then we should at least entertain the notion that we have a small artistic process on our hands.

Exactly. There's some definite substrate-ism (like sex-ism) going on here!

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#133

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:50 AM UTC

liuru wrote: post #2

Hey HN, one of the team members here! I hope you all enjoy playing with the new and improved generator! We've been hard at work improving the model quality since the last time the site was posted[1] As both a professional fantasy illustrator & software engineer, I find the concept of AI creativity so fascinating. On one hand, I know that mathematically AI only can hallucinate images that fit within the distribution o…

With the game you're building, are the character portraits generated once and that's it, or do you plan on making them dynamic or frequently updated?

I've seen a number of mobile games that just get flooded with characters; this tool looks like it could be used to automate that process. It could be combined with AI-generated character profiles as well, creating an 'infinite' character roster in video games.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#134

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:52 AM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #68

Gigachad wrote: post #46

This is extremely impressive. It’s the first GAN I have seen which lets you tweak the result in a meaningful way rather than being just random. I think the speed that GANs have come in to the world has really shaken people up and it’s hard to process what this all means and what it will result in. Especially the ones which generate based on real people. But the feeling this gives me, is what happens for the future of…

Art isn't about statical copying or drawing well. It's about human expression.

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, there's a ton of mass-produced, low-creativity art out there, where the objective is not to express oneself but to churn out products with the intent to make money. This is not just in artwork, but in other design based things like e.g. website designs as well.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#135

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:56 AM UTC

DavidPiper wrote: post #61

zacmps wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been here before, and we certainly will again. It was not so long ago computers bet humans at chess, yet people still play.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately, incomplete thoughts ahead... Yes, people still play, but they no longer create. With the exception of Adversarial attacks on particular algorithms, no human is creating new Chess theory, discovering new openings, for example. As a game, challenge, competition, social activity, chess is alive and well. As a creative endeavour, or vehicle for discovery, Chess is solved. It is…

> no human is creating new Chess theory, discovering new openings, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongcloud_Attack

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#136

Post by KronisLV » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 9:58 AM UTC

LoveMortuus wrote: post #117

KronisLV wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a nice project that you're working on, definitely more high effort than some other attempts at generated art (procedurally or otherwise). I can't help but to feel that this would be a better fit for the fad of NFTs as well, as opposed to ugly monkeys or other asset flips that were pretty obvious cash grabs. Either way, good luck!

I'm guessing your referring to the "one of a kind" part of NFTs, which made me wonder, how would they validate that the created Waifu hasn't been created before? The question is, would people buy, since there are near endless, and a huge difference is that these don't have a story attached to them...

> I'm guessing your referring to the "one of a kind" part of NFTs, which made me wonder, how would they validate that the created Waifu hasn't been created before?

Oh, not even that, since while some data ends up on the blockchain, i find the whole ownership concept a bit nebulous at best, much like how people mock the whole "oh, just right click the image to save it" thing.

What i was actually referring to was more along the lines of the collector economy idea itself - people willing to exchange their monetary resources for something that they enjoy. Having it be out of a sense of endearment and aesthetic enjoyment (waifus and husbandos) rather than the desire to flip those things (possibly a number of other NFTs or collectibles) seems to be less morally questionable to me!

While i'm not really familiar with the whole NFT space, to me it seems that projects like CryptoKitties are more agreeable and thus viable in this space, as would AI generated images of cute characters! Actually, that seems like a really good fit to me, regardless of how the actual "uniqueness" or "ownership" aspect would play out.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#137

Post by jokethrowaway » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 10:03 AM UTC

Bombthecat wrote: post #65

unobatbayar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quality and style is mindblowing! What data did you train?

The more interesting question: What about the sources for the AI to train? How are those artists paid? Do we need to pay them? Or if it used by an AI as train data, we just say: Its like a human learning?

A human artist can purchase material or access freely available material, look at it, learn from it and then draw his own.

An AI could do the same.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#138

Post by wnkrshm » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 10:16 AM UTC

liuru wrote: post #95

ridaj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating... Thanks for sharing A couple questions: 1) I didn't really understand how you went about identifying what vectors of the latent space stand for various things, like pose or color. Did you train one of the AIs to that effect, or did you manually inspect a bunch of vectors, twiddling through them one by one, did to the outcome? 2) If one were to train an AI to the same level using commodity cloud services…

1) It was mostly manual, though AIs were useful in certain filtering tasks. 2) Depends on the quality you are seeking. If you only want one run of a similar, off-the-shelf model, around the 1000s is enough. But at the number of iterations you have to run to build your own and improve results, you probably need about 100k. To tackle this problem, we built our own supercomputer off of parts we bought off of ebay, thoug…

Very curious about the computer, what are the internals?

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#139

Post by numpad0 » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 10:25 AM UTC

educaysean wrote: post #124

numpad0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand the need to mandate racial caricaturizations in every modes of communication. I would find it upsetting if every pieces of texts and quotes were prefaced with an "origin" indicator to aid forming prejudices. Why have it in manga?

What mandate? It's a product designed to be used by living, breathing people and people tend have various preferences. Do people requesting darker skinned models somehow upset you more than people who request red haired models?

Okay, I backtrack a bit, GP didn't specify that they want an adjustable ethnicity, only skin colors, and I made an assumption that exaggerated ethnic features is the intent.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#140

Post by Kuinox » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 10:30 AM UTC

It's funny how people complained about github copilot 'stealing' people code, but nobody here complained about this AI 'stealing' artworks.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against this, but I think we should start discusing morality of AI generated content, even if it doesn't train on existing artworks/code.