Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If social media is going to be the default communication medium I don't think this is really true. Most people in the US don't use Twitter. Not to mention that many users are following entertainment based users or aren't fully consuming posts by those they follow. Twitter is just an additional stream/supplement to town halls, email lists, websites, news coverage, etc.
Twitter use is near-ubiquitous among journalists, politicians, and those who wield or seek to gain influence. Corporations fire people, companies terminate business deals, and universities expel students based on what gets said on Twitter. News agencies find leads and shape stories using Twitter. Most of what gets said on CNN, NBC, or Fox News is filtered through the lens of writers who use Twitter and care about how…
Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
131–140 of 218 posts
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#132What an absolute boon for Marjorie Taylor Greene. Twitter is not a place where useful, meaningful conversation happens in the political space ( especially by people like MTG) but she’ll be able to dine out on this ban for a long time. I expect it’ll be featured in every fundraising email she sends until something changes. She’s not meaningfully censored, just like Trump wasn’t: every press release he sends gets cover…
I absolutely agree that termination of her Twitter account is not meaningful censorship. I'm sure it won't be long before all the networks want to interview her about it. The invitations have probably already been sent.
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well nothing is preventing them from implementing such features if they want to.
> Well nothing is preventing them from implementing such features if they want to. There's nothing preventing you from implementing your own social network with those rules. Hacker News is a forum for business ideas and web-based technologies after all, built around an angel fund / venture capital slant. But I'm trying to tell you that you'll end up relying upon user-based moderation for many cases: including simple…
I responded to your statement that 'The _ONLY_ moderating action internet citizens have is moderation [...]'; I'm just pointing out that while that is true for twitter users at present, Twitter could experiment with other approaches if they felt like it. I'm not saying they must or they should, just that nothing prevents them. I responded in handwavey terms because your comment about 'internet citizens' seemed pretty open-ended.
But I'm trying to tell you that you'll end up relying upon user-based moderation for many cases
OK? That's the idea I was exploring. It worked to some extent on NNTP, where people would maintain 'killfiles' and different Usenet groups were more or less protective of their cohesion. I'm not suggesting it as some sort of magic bullet, just saying that centralized moderation is not the only possible approach.
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is close to my reasoning. If Twitter or others are so important then they should be regulated as public utilities. I don't think they are. It's funny when politicians with entire staff committed to disseminating information complain about censorship.
If social media is that important - and that isn't a decision anyone has actually voted on, it's just something people say now - then the government can build its own social media platform and regulate it as a utility. Having the government take over a private business because it decides the free speech rights of politicians should be more important than the free speech and association rights of everyone else is a ba…
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not censoring for a private company to refuse service to someone. I don't agree with government compelling speech for a private company either.
But if the government is in talks w/ the social media about setting their policy, and they use that policy to ban other politicians, is that not censorship?
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Twitter is not the public square. They app stores are not the public square. No one takes that argument seriously because it's not serious. Is it censorship that most existing book publishers are highly unlikely to publish a book of your or my political opinions? Should a publisher, or anyone else, be compelled to promote speech they disagree with? Would you want someone to compel you to write or publish lies? Marjor…
I’m not talking about just Twitter or just this issue. And I specified “in an ideal world” which we aren’t in. In an ideal world, big tech would have more regulation and would have, due to their size, certain regulations on their behavior and who they choose not to do business with, not just in the political sphere. An example (to draw an extreme example to make my point), Visa and MasterCard (due to their size) coul…
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#137No matter what their politics are, I would hope that all reasonable people can condemn cancel culture, regardless of the political alignment of the person being cancelled. I get a lot of value from Twitter because I follow a few awesomely interesting people, but I could probably get the same effect by bookmarking their blogs. People should have access to all information, and filter for themselves what is trash. I don…
Reasonable people should not condemn cancel culture; reasonable people should support efforts to cancel racism, sexism, ageism, and the other -isms that cause profound harm to members of our societies. It's not really that difficult to not make racist, sexist, or homophobic remarks.
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#138[flagged]
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure they have to. Gjsman affirmed their right to freedom (they CAN), but would prefer that they exercised that freedom in a certain way (they SHOULD). Believe it or not, government regulations don't have to be the solution to every little thing. See saurik's comment below for more.
I just want to be clear that it's incorrect to use the word "censor" or "censorship" to refer to the act of terminating someone's Twitter account for breach of contract. Furthermore, because Twitter isn't the government, it's probably incorrect to use "censor" or "censorship" at all. "Discrimination" is the correct word to use if a corporation like Twitter terminated her account for an illegal reason. For example: if…
By banning people based on the content of their speech, Twitter is precisely engaging in censorship. Just because they haven't called their department head responsible for handing out bans a "Censor" does not mean their constructive behavior is something new that we don't have a word for!
Furthermore, immediately referencing the Bill of Rights to call Twitter's activities "freedom of expression" is wantonly destructive to any sort of discussion. The US Bill of Rights takes natural rights and narrowly frames them in terms of restrictions on government, because that is likely the best that can be done at its level of abstraction. The scale Twitter operates at is much closer to that of government than that of the People - it is most certainly appropriate to say that Twitter is impinging upon individuals' freedom of speech. If you do not agree that it is a concern, then go ahead and make that argument on its own merits. Narrowly construing definitions so that you can discard concerns does not make for productive understanding.
(Having said that my own feeling here is that Ms. Ignorance-as-a-Service has reaped what she has sown, is of a notoriety that is legible to Twitter, and can easily publish on other platforms - compare with all the unnoteworthy individuals who get the automated banhammers with no appeal. And this will ultimately just be a boon to her, just like any other celebrity feud. But let us not twist our own definitions to assuage our cognitive dissonance!)
Re: Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are they going to ban politicians from discussing budget charts or crime statistics in public debates if they decide that it's misleading with no objective basis? I’m assuming the “government database” is VEARS, which is using raw, unverified data. It would be like if someone took NextDoor or Shotspotter reports to derive crime statistics.
Imperfect data is still useful for understanding the world, is it not? To use your example: I'm not completely sure that Shotspotter reports are 100% accurate, but I'd be hesitant to move to a neighborhood that was reported to have a steady burst of gunshots, wouldn't you? In fact, speaking on data, couldn't we say that almost all data is imperfect to some extent? Isn't this especially true of Covid-related data?