Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 272 posts

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#131

Post by echelon »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94
wronglebowski wrote: post #2

> "Most engineers received stock worth $80,000 to $120,000, with the bonuses provided as restricted stock units that are set to vest over the course of four years provided the employees stay with Apple and do not take jobs at other companies." Is that really a significant amount enough to ward off being poached? 120k over 4 years is 30k a year if linear. I would think at the pay scales being discussed they would get…

A bonus is a bonus. Presumably this is on top of whatever they had before, so an extra $20K to $45K per year is icing on the cake. In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation. The strategy works well for a few iterations in early careers, but eventually it starts becoming counter-productive. If you have 10 jobs in 1…

> In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation.

Not in my experience. Most engineers spend 1-2 years, then leave.

> move up the in-company career ladder.

That's a hard ladder to climb from the inside. Politics lead to entrenchment.

> accomplish anything big

A great deal of work is plumbing and KTLO. What do the folks working on these things get? They're not great promo or resume fodder for internal mobility.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#132

Post by thewebcount »

wronglebowski wrote: post #2

> "Most engineers received stock worth $80,000 to $120,000, with the bonuses provided as restricted stock units that are set to vest over the course of four years provided the employees stay with Apple and do not take jobs at other companies." Is that really a significant amount enough to ward off being poached? 120k over 4 years is 30k a year if linear. I would think at the pay scales being discussed they would get…

Keep in mind that it’s $30k the first year. If you get the same bonus the next year, it’s now $60k ($30k from the first grant + $30k from the second). At 4 years you’re now making $120k per year above your salary. On top of that, Apple stock has been doing pretty well for something like 15-20 years now. If you don’t immediately sell, that first $30k you got is now worth significantly more, though there are no guarantees that will continue into the future. But it certainly can work out very nicely. If you start over at a new company, you lose that extra $120k per year for the next 4 years until you’re vested at the new company.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#133

Post by double_nan »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #80
double_nan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designers and PMs. Apple is being ran by designers and PMs. Which is not really a bad thing from users point of view.

> Apple is being ran by designers and PMs The nice thing about being run by PMs is that products and feature ship. I joke bitterly with my friends at Google who can't seem to consistently deliver anything outside of their existing cash-cows.

That is true. It has its own downsides as well. Like extremely outdated and bad tech in the areas not visible to the higher ups.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#134

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

renewiltord wrote: post #75
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human

There is actually very little evidence for this. It is likely that it is mostly dog poop. EDIT: the comments in response are non-sequiturs. The map does not display mostly human poop. It is mostly dog poop. I know I know, you see people poop all the time. But that’s not what the map is.

Oh yeah, the Bay Area is actually paradise.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gT5NULvRSk

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUtyW4FRn78

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPuMceGWtOQ

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#135

Post by hindsightbias »

hangonhn wrote: post #86
rowanajmarshall wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> London, Tokyo, New York and pretty much every other major metropolis has problems akin to the Bay Area I've never lived in the Bay Area/SF so I can't comment on the problems there, but I have lived in London for the past few years. I volunteer extensively with the homeless, and I haven't seen a fraction of what people describe in San Francisco, or anywhere near the level of antisocial behaviour or crime. Every week…

I've lived in the Bay Area for 15 years. Except for the "poop on street" part, I've never witnessed any of those other things in SF or anywhere else either. I've never ever been threatened by anything (words or physically) in real life (this is true everywhere I've lived: Hong Kong, Florida, Connecticut, Texas, SF/Bay Area) In the Bay Area I've largely stayed in the less crowded suburbs such as Mountain View, Palo Al…

The solution has always been fewer rich people, and the more they believe this is hell-on-earth, the more they will leave and the fewer will come.

Please stay the course and let them have their “reality”.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#136

Post by shrimpx »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94
wronglebowski wrote: post #2

> "Most engineers received stock worth $80,000 to $120,000, with the bonuses provided as restricted stock units that are set to vest over the course of four years provided the employees stay with Apple and do not take jobs at other companies." Is that really a significant amount enough to ward off being poached? 120k over 4 years is 30k a year if linear. I would think at the pay scales being discussed they would get…

A bonus is a bonus. Presumably this is on top of whatever they had before, so an extra $20K to $45K per year is icing on the cake. In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation. The strategy works well for a few iterations in early careers, but eventually it starts becoming counter-productive. If you have 10 jobs in 1…

My perception is that everyone knows job hopping is normal and companies will be happy to have you for that 1-2 years if you’re good. It’s not a black mark on your resume. For me a questionable resume is someone who spent the past 20 years at Accenture or something. Signals possibility of being too entrenched in those habits to make a contribution in a new environment.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#137

Post by jonas21 »

ripper1138 wrote: post #15
judge2020 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is how it works, but if they're awarded now and Apple maintains its current growth it could be worth 4x (AAPL is up ~400% compared to 4 years ago).

Extremely unlikely that Apple will 4x again in 4 years. Last 4 years stock performance are an extreme outlier for the all big tech companies.

It's not really that much of an outlier -- AAPL has had pretty ridiculous growth in each of the previous 4-year periods this century as well.

    2021-12-28   $179.29   4.19x
    2017-12-28   $ 42.77   2.14x
    2013-12-28   $ 20.00   2.65x
    2009-12-28   $  7.56   2.87x
    2005-12-28   $  2.63   6.57x
    2001-12-28   $  0.40   3.33x
    1997-12-28   $  0.12
I agree this can't go on for too much longer, if only because governments will eventually stop Apple if they control too much of the economy. But is there room for another 4x? Maybe?

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#138

Post by exBarrelSpoiler »

argitest34 wrote: post #97
uejfiweun wrote: post #16

Pretty much everyone I know who worked in Software at Apple had a bad experience. The common refrain was that engineers are treated like crap at apple, and it's the designers who get all the glory. It makes me excited for the future of software engineering to see moves like this. Clearly Apple, and many other companies, are starting to understand just how critical devs are to a modern business. And they are finding t…

The standard way to describe Apple is that there are good and bad teams. My experience there (SWE org) was 70+ hour workweeks, backstabbing, more politics than anywhere else I've ever worked by a factor of ten, useless leadership (director had no charisma or leadership skills, but seemed to have the Jobs personality...), fear of senior management (director, VPs) by managers, and every other negative anecdote about a…

I have also experienced some uniquely Apple lows in my time. The mini-Jobs personality problem is spot-on, there are some middle managers there who are unprofessionally rude, mean, even dictatorial. The stress is ratcheted up by ironclad deadlines that entire orgs live and die by. And for a long time a lot of internal systems were absurdly out of date even though they belonged to such a cutting-edge company.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#139

Post by treyfitty »

lolsal wrote: post #28
mgraczyk wrote: post #27

Interesting, Apple pays $180k over 4 years to prevent good engineers from going to Meta. Meanwhile, Meta gives >$1M in discretionary equity to top performers to prevent them from leaving. I don't think Apple picked a big enough number here.

Meta has a moral/ethical cost as well as a branding tax.

I’m willing to bet the general populace will find ways to justify working for Meta. The compensation is a lot to say no to

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#140

Post by digianarchist »

ryandrake wrote: post #102
supernova87a wrote: post #74

Apple is reaching a size where the un-coordination of its leadership and processes as it has grown (while yet rigorously enforcing other negative aspects of corporate culture) are producing a place that is harder and harder to enjoy working for. It worked for a while when the company was small enough and lines of command were short enough for leadership to control effectively, but it has grown while the people proces…

> Now, can't pay someone market rate because that would be going out of band. While at the same time, people who come in as "headline" hires from external are given not nearly such scrutiny and instead get $Ms and hiring bonuses and directorships. This seems like a common, growing problem in BigTech: It's often easier to interview and get L+1 at another company than it is to get promoted from L to L+1. Hell, it's pro…

This applies to salary as much as it does to titles and roles.
Post reply on HN