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To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

deccanherald.com

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Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#131

Post by ashtonkem »

yuters wrote: post #121
jeroenhd wrote: post #7

Thi will never cure the underlying cause of suicides, of course, but adding even slight obstacles has proven to have an effect on suicide rates. Many suicides aren't thoughtfully planned out, but are just a combination of motive and easy opportunity. Even adding something as seemingly silly as a moderately difficult to climb fence to a bridge can reduce suicide rates. This is a fine measure, assuming that it's follow…

> This is a fine measure, assuming that it's followed by investment into mental health. I don't know if it's a problem with the institution or a problem with the reporting but you could avoid a lot of "But they're not fixing the root cause, just the symptoms." outrage just by confirming this assumption. More engagement I guess... Everyone knows that fixing the root cause is the way to go, it's weird to see that some…

There's also the question whether any given institution is even capable of addressing the underlying causes, or whether it's in its best interest to do so. Sometimes the causes are big and deeply rooted, and a college is not capable of pushing back the metaphorical tide.

Focusing in on students specifically, I suspect (but do not know) that the extremely high pressure nature of going to a University in India is a factor. If that assumption is true, it's not clear whether the University is capable or willing to change that.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#132

Post by ashtonkem »

perth wrote: post #68
ashtonkem wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming teenagers and low 20 something’s are the similar the world over, they should have restricted access to terraces and rooftops for a variety of reasons unrelated to suicide. Alcohol and heights tend not to be very close friends, and my college restricted access to the latter as much as they could (the former was a lost cause).

Honestly my university giving us rooftop access for working on and setting up radio equipment was one of the most educational and enriching things I did there. Restricting access to rooftops for students seems like a terrible idea for education, where a lot of science literally happens on rooftops, whether with antennas or telescopes. (some students used the rooftop access to monitor fukushima reactor radiation in th…

There's a big difference between "we're going to the rooftop for a project" and "we just left the rooftop door permanently unlocked". The former is fine, the latter is where I'd say that the University is probably making a mistake.

Exceptions of course for high traffic rooftops specifically designed for human occupation, with appropriate amenities and guard rails. The ones my university locked off were either full of industrial equipment (ACs, etc.), or had low stone ledges that were no longer up to modern spec. Closing them off was the right call.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#133

Post by aerostable_slug »

mcv wrote: post #65
jeroenhd wrote: post #7

Thi will never cure the underlying cause of suicides, of course, but adding even slight obstacles has proven to have an effect on suicide rates. Many suicides aren't thoughtfully planned out, but are just a combination of motive and easy opportunity. Even adding something as seemingly silly as a moderately difficult to climb fence to a bridge can reduce suicide rates. This is a fine measure, assuming that it's follow…

I remember a story about an army that had a lot of suicides when soldiers would go home and take their gun with them. Not allowing them to take their gun home apparently really cut down on the suicides. Having a bit more time to think about it can save lives. But of course they should still address the underlying reasons that make people consider suicide.

The Turkish Army fitted sheet metal trigger guard boxes designed to make it harder for a depressed conscript to pull the trigger on their G3 rifle when the muzzle is in their mouth or under their chin.

https://silahreport.com/2020/04/27/suicide-prevention-trigge...

No word on its effectiveness in practice.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#134

Post by GhettoComputers »

Is this not the same argument with gun control? Remove the guns, solves gun violence?

On a similar note, I don’t think that teaching mental health is the solution. The pressures in India are terrible. MIT in the US has no legacy program, and has the highest suicide rates, and I know a few people that were committed rapidly and diagnosed haphazardly. This prevents suicide by imprisoning them in powerful psychoactive drugs (antipsychotics) and labeling them as schizophrenic, holding them against their free will to lower suicide stats.

The underlying issue is the pressure to succeed, and they will never remove that in India.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#135

Post by GhettoComputers »

screye wrote: post #60

I think this is a genuinely good idea. (which should obviously be accompanied by actual rehabilitative options and de-stigmatization of mental health) I went to similar institute in India (NIT, the proverbial first losers), and 3 students hung themselves over the span on 2 years. (1 acquaintance, 1 friend) From what was made public, their decision to commit suicide was a rash one, tied to the fear of failure. (one wa…

I do not think mental health education is the answer, in a highly populated country like India and the pressure to succeed, it will never go away unless culture changes. The pressures in India are extreme and the preferential treatment of “backwards castes” has costs. Unless they de emphasize the culture, you’ll see this pattern as is the case in China, Japan, South Korea, and MIT.

My cousin faced the same issues, he now has an outlet for his frustrations and cares less about success that is ingrained in academia.

The worst part about this is many people in this worldview expect it to be easy after. India has the lowest divorce rate so it’s possible it’s not a delusion to get a good wife with a good job, but society is changing, and with no social skills these people face more problems later.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#136

Post by GhettoComputers »

MrFantastic wrote: post #105

Living in 100F+ heat might with no fans might make you suicidal.

I went to a good magnet school with no fans or AC on the highest floor. It made such little sense to have the brightest students pass out, nap, not be able to learn and only one teacher had an AC he personally brought in.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#137

Post by GhettoComputers »

podgaj wrote: post #89

Why take down the fans? It’s survival of the fittest! /sarc Humanity is fine with creating unneeded suffering in others but we will alway draw the line at ending human suffering. It is the same with the homeless. Society is fine with us living on the street but will give you immediate housing if you want to end your suffering by suicide. So, we could restructure education and society in a way that would eliminate suf…

Artificial selection. Society probably won’t be improved by smart kids killing themselves.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#138

Post by spoonjim »

SapporoChris wrote: post #36
Ygg2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However making suicide harder, does reduce the suicide rate. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...

It's a boondoggle. With a bonus effect of increasing deaths from extreme heat. Now, it might seem rude of me, but I am against killing people that want to live in order to maybe save people that want to die. edit In addition, 88 per cent of students said they did not think that “replacing ceiling fans with wall-mounted fans in all IISc hostels (would) help curb student suicide”. Read more at: https://www.deccanherald…

* Bangalore has negligible deaths from extreme heat. It does not get very hot there.

* Student polling is not a good way of assessing the likely impact on suicides.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#140

Post by AdrianB1 »

mcv wrote: post #124
rkk3 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intention of success is hard to know... What we do know is women use less lethal methods like pills, rather guys who use more lethal methods like firearms.

To get a better picture, it might help to compare men with easy access to firearms to men without such access.

Doing the comparison between South Korea and USA, restricting firearm access look to be increasing suicide rate. Of course this is not true, just an extreme outlier, the point is that cultural differences have a much stronger impact than access to a particular method.
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