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Player of Games

arxiv.org

131–140 of 242 posts

Re: Player of Games

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty amazing book. I wish I could play a board game like that as well.

I always imagine the board game as essentially being SM's Civilisation but really, really good in an indescribable way - with some card games inbetween.

I believe Banks himself said that he used to play Civ and took some inspiration from it

Re: Player of Games

#132
post #3

This is clearly part of DeepMind's long-game plan to achieve world domination through board game mastery. Naming the new algorithm after the book is a real tip of their hand... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Player_of_Games

PSA: The "Culture" novels by Iain M Banks are fantastic and can be read in any order. "Player of Games" was the 1st one I read and still probably my favorite.

Re: Player of Games

#133
post #2

I really like seeing references to the Culture series when naming things: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Player_of_Games

Allusions are fun and all, but I disagree. These are important problems that a lot of people have put their whole careers into researching. Silly names like these lack gravitas.

indeed

Re: Player of Games

#135
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish alphago was more "democratized" -- that is to say, I have many questions and experiments I'd love to run on it (a friend of mine and I have frequently pondered Go played in various different topological spaces, and I'd love to see an AI's result, for example).

Look into Katago. It's an open source AI in the same general style as AlphaGo, with an empasis on training speed. On 9x9 you can get up to superhuman really quickly on just a decent home machine (I think hours/days, can't remember exactly and it's probably improved since I looked).

You can also just download pre-trained models. Get those set up and then install Sabaki (https://sabaki.yichuanshen.de/) and connect it to your KataGo... instant (ok, a few hours probably if it's your first time setting it up) superhuman Go AI. There's even an npm package you can use to process SGF files and automatically score moves as good/questionable/bad + generate variations that were better choices: https://github.com/9beach/analyze-sgf/blob/master/README.en-...

(Edit: Misread what the other poster was trying to do, but I'm leaving this here as a reference for anyone else who just wants to use KataGo on their own machine on their own Go games.)

Re: Player of Games

#136
This seems like a significant milestone in AI. I mean what can't an agent with mastery of "guided search, learning, and game-theoretic reasoning" accomplish?

Re: Player of Games

#137
post #68

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You often don't need anywhere near the amount of compute in these papers to get similar performance. Suppose you're a business that needs to play games. Most people seem to think that it's a matter of plugging in the settings from the paper, buying the same hardware, then clicking a button and waiting. It's not. The specific settings matter a lot. But my main point is that you'll get most of your performance pretty r…

My thoughts, not being in the field, are parallel to the parent post. "It's nice and all that we're achieving better and better computer performance at things that used to require the human brain, but it seems we're doing so by building larger and larger computers."Not to detract from that achievement, I love large computers in their own right! I'm a dabbler in Go, and "somewhere below professional" at the game of po…

> "The specific settings matter a lot.".

Yes, and in the case of deep RL, the ability to to get "lucky" random initialization seems to (still) matter a lot.

I work in real time control systems, which are roughly decision making under uncertainty problems. A lot of the RL research has become noise buoyed with large marketing budgets.

Re: Player of Games

#138
post #101

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Dominion and Homeworlds are pretty complicated! Maybe you can start with a simpler game like Splendor. In my 2-player Splendor rules engine, the following actions are possible: 1. Purchase a holding. (90 possible actions, one for each holding) 2. If you do not have 3 reserved cards, reserve a card and take a gold chip if possible. (93 possible actions, one for each holding and one for each deck of facedown cards) 3.…

I actually played Splendor for the first (three) time(s) some time ago and honestly didn't really like it. It's a very simple game, true. I feel like there are not many decision points for me as a player and therefore there is not much strategy involved. But maybe that is just my view after very few games. (At the same time that probably makes it a good choice for a game implementation) Thing is that for all my examp…

I think splendor gets more interesting if your opponents are also trying to be strategic. You can see what color chips they are picking up, which lets you know what they are aiming for, which influences what card you want to aim for or reserve. Mid game, you can see what colors other people are missing and try to corner colors to give you room to breath and pick up cards. You can also see the set of colors people are holding to see which of the 4 final bonus point cards are being fought over.

I like the game for what it is. I'd say, surprisingly strategic.

Re: Player of Games

#139
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this, it was excellent. I've only read a few Banks books, but this was my favorite.

I started with Consider Phlebas but stopped because it seems too slow for me. Does it get better in the later chapters?

I started with Consider Phlebas because I wanted to see why people raved about the Culture series. I found it kind of tedious and slow, and although I finished it, I wondered what all the hype was about. I'm thankful that I picked up the second book though (Player of Games) - because I couldn't put it down; it was fantastic. I've stuck with the series since then (Excession was another highlight). I'd would like to revisit Consider Phlebas at some point, I think I might enjoy it more now that I have more context for the story.
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