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ADSL works over wet string (2017)

revk.uk

131–140 of 157 posts

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasnt taught that radio waves were to be considered identical to AC power down a cable but when thinking about it, they probably are identical with waveform properties and the difference being the medium they are travelling through.

The exact details become confusing and get into some physics details, but in practice radio frequency on a cable is basically an AC voltage that needs special care to not be lost to inductance and other effects. This is of course part of the general trend that DC through gamma radiation are in many ways the same thing. It's common parlance to say "DC component" to refer to any offset from zero in the AC waveform. So,…

> Amusingly, so-called "sidetone" in telephones (being able to hear yourself in the speaker) is an undesired result of imperfect performance of the hybrid but turns out to be an important comfort to humans, so DSP-based systems usually intentionally mix the outbound audio into the inbound at a low level.

I wonder if the circuit lag from sidetone is something that affects hearing aid users, considering they have another circuit in which audio has to go through before the user gets to hear, but I wonder if the sidetone passes through their skull or jaw bone instead, totally bypassing their hearing aid. I guess the speed of electrical circuits, the speed of electricity passing through a circuit, is a bonus for our slower nervous system and brain which is only running at speeds of up to the old 286's/386's/486's iirc.

>DOCSIS >coaxial cable and the fittings and amplifiers used are designed to carry high frequencies with minimal loss So the old Token Ring network never died out it just morphed into Cable networks?

>heavy use of remote DSLAMs that "convert" most of the subscriber loop to a longer-range medium like fiber. And then there is Deep Packet Analysis (DPA) which can not only be used as a firewall like solution, but also used for compression/decompression to increase the bandwith of fibre by virtue of using compression algo's that give high rates of compression for different types of packet streams based on the type of data and also the way its delivered.

May be Youtube's delivery of packets from a variety of servers in a co-ordinated manner could negatively affect the compression algos, that could then be used to deliver over fibre and other networks, because we cant assume all network traffic for a service comes from one server. At the same time, this method of delivery can also be used to work out where compression of packet data is taking place on a "hop" or number of hops on the network to the end user, by virtue of packets arriving out of order. I think that method could be used to work out physical layouts of telephone networks between their servers and the end user. I then wonder are the spooks/telco providers in some country's using crypto currency like "tumblers" to make the telephone network change so no route is ever the same.

Its interesting but frustrating when looking back at some of the ways things were explained when at school, education can be used for so much more intelligence gathering than meets the eye.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radio waves down a wire are by definition AC. Otherwise they don't work. The voltage must change, thus the current must change, thus it is AC. Just because it's not 50/60Hz AC like a powerline doesn't change that. There might be a DC component, but ultimately all the ADSL modem cares about is the AC part.

Couldn't you send an amplitude modulated signal down a DC line by modulating the voltage but keeping that voltage always above zero? If the current never actually reverses, it wouldn't be AC as I understand it. It would be PDC, pulsed direct current.

> modulating the voltage but keeping that voltage always above zero

In signal transmission theory people almost always think in terms of frequency ranges.

Any DC component is simply a frequency set to 0 - that can be ignored.

Similar to the earth magnetic field when talking about radio transmission in air.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#134
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

joking aside, I remember a while back that there has at least been cursory investigation into running high-speed internet cables through water pipes. Presuming you have water pipes to your property, could be easier than digging up roads etc. Only issue might be if you have a leak and need to shut off your water!! https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/aug/09/uk-launch...

There is company in Czechia which provides optics via sewage. I guess it is cheaper to use existing infrastructure than to place new pipes under roads.

"cheaper" is an understatement.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing the electrons and the electromagnetic fields. The electrons absolutely do migrate through the wires; the electric field does not. P.S. that video appears to have been written to confuse/generate controversy and does a terrible job of actually explaining.

> The electrons absolutely do migrate through the wires; That’s true. But very slowly in electrical terms. If I remember right the actual electronics in a reasonable circuit I read about was something like 1” per second. The vast majority of work done is an electron shuffle of bouncing into the next one in space.

The idea that electrons "push each other" is misleading and an oversimplification.

Watch the video. Like waves in the ocean, are water molecules pushing each other and making the wave? Or is the wave carrying the molecules with itself? Or both things at the same time?

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in high-density London, we're stuck with ~70mbps ADSL and not even cable. Not representative of all of London, but at least around my parts it is slow ADSL or nothing :(

Are you suggesting 70Mbps is slow ADSL? There are many places where not even a tenth of that speed is possible.

BT have left a large number of people on ADSL. No VDSL upgrade.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#138
post #103
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, sending a singal across fiber is definitely not easy. ADSL is basically modulating a radio wave over a cable directly to another device. Fiber requires high quality optics, high quality lasers, tons of active hardware if you want to do it at scale. (not to mention the mind boggling physics and manufacturing required for things like DWDM, optical path switching etc). Fiber optics have existed since the 80's yes,…

Meh. Fiber has been cheaper than copper per mile for a long time and 10km optics are like $20.

yes, but this does not scale if you want to build residential connectivity.

GPON makes this scalable and affordable, but at the cost of technical complexity. Fiber (as in, the cables themselves) is far cheaper to produce compared to copper, but this has mostly to do with the price of copper and not manufacturing techniques.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, my hat is off to the people who designed and implemented ADSL. It's a blessing-and-a-curse: too many incumbent ISPs in highly-developed nations used ADSL's ability to run on anything as an excuse to put-off FTTH deployments (looking at you, BT).

In hind sight wouldn’t 5g have been a better investment than fiber to home, I mean companies will have to have 5g to stay competitive in mobile anyway

Perhaps in densely-populated areas, but certainly not in sparsely-populated areas.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#140
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>...*my hat is off to the people who designed and implemented ADSL.* Maybe a few will recall: San Jose California, in the epicenter of Silicon Valley -- but for some reason Comcast (was previously called * COVID* ) -- and you couldnt get DSL in San Jose at the time .... literally down the street from Netflix, and freaking home DSL took YEARS for it to reach our houses... (My point is that it was ironic that in the h…

Are you thinking of COVAD? IIRC, they were a competitive local exchange carrier, unrelated to Comcast. As a CLEC, they could place DSL equipment in the incumbent carriers (mostly Pacific Bell/ATT, but Los Gatos Telephone company was absorbed by GTE/Verizon and I think sold to Frontier) and use the existing wiring to run DSL. In silicon valley, this doesn't offer great coverage; to get reasonable line lengths, you nee…

It was available in CenturyLink/Qwest areas. Not sure about now, a lot of the loop products have been grandfathered recently.

https://www.centurylink.com/wholesale/pcat/fcp.html

I was one of two providers in their 13 state region that used it. It was really successful and let us put in ADSL and then Ethernet over Copper in business parks.

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