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Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

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Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#131
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The request for a phone number is precisely a 2FA mechanism, and that's how it's being used. I don't understand what the bad faith you're assuming on Google's part is. What do they want that phone number for otherwise?

If they're asking for a phone number after they've already decided you're not trusted enough with just your password, that is not 2FA. If you're not trusted, then any phone number you give shouldn't be trusted, either. If you're trusted enough to be let in when you give a phone number, then you should be trusted enough to be let in without it, and then asked for a phone number, if one is really needed for 2FA.

Indeed this is not a second factor.

I assume this restriction is against automation. As a complete guess on the heuristics: If the phone number you gave them is a "virtual" one, you are out. If it was used too frequently for recovery, you are out. If they are already familiar with it as belonging to someone else who is unlikely to also own the current account, you are out.

With those heuristics you need to provide a "fresh" phone number that likely belongs to a real person and costs real money to purchase and you are unlikely to want to "burn" for just 5 out of 5,000,000 of your automated attempts.

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#132

I lost a lot of accounts because of this misunderstanding. I always use a VPN for work. I keep all logins and passwords in the password manager. But Google is very worried about my safety, even to my detriment.

Using a public VPN is almost guaranteed to flag your logins as suspicious at all of the big tech companies. If anyone wants to see how intent big tech is on tying your profiles back to personally identifiable information, connect to a VPN and try to create new accounts on various services. It's basically impossible without a non-VOIP phone number. If you manage to get an email address, big sites like Facebook and Twi…

I recently tried to start up some new accounts across all of big tech, while keeping my true identity private. I was making up names etc. I wanted to try out the services under a fresh new name and see what it was like (Facebook feeds etc).

Every one of them required a phone number and had all kinds of algos and databases in place to thwart anonymity. If all of your demographic information didn't match the country your IP address was in the experience turned into a brick wall.

I did this a few years ago when establishing an onion (new accounts created and accessed only over VPN+TOR) identity for the dark web and didn't have a problem.

If I needed to hide my identity and communicate with people as a non-techie journalist or dissident I would not know how to proceed at this point.

This is not being done to fight terrorism. The real reason is to ensure that every user is a real person that can be sold.

When some fat cat spend thrift advertising executive complains about possible sock puppets numbering in the millions on their platform they just kick back and explain thier byzantine system of identity verification.

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#133

This has happened to me too, but in my case the Google account that I lost access to is the admin account of a Google Adsense publisher account. For some reason I don't receive the 2FA code to my phone, though I do know the recovery email address and the password. I don't log into the Adsense account a lot, it's a small amount of revenue, enough to cover some DO droplets every month. Given that I don't log in a lot,…

Sue them in small claims court, it's cheap and it sends a message. Worth it for the satisfaction even if the Adsense revenue they scammed from you is less than the (small) filing fee...

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#134
Happened to me on an account I didn't use for a couple of years. I used the same IP, login, password, recovery email. Nope, 'we can't verify it's you, try again later'. Later I tried, and tried, and tried for a few weeks, still the same.

I gave up, transferred all services linked to this email, with some back and forth with their support. Then, after a couple of month of not trying I was finally allowed in.

The moral is this: google can't be trusted with such serious and vital service as email. They can freeze your access to an account and offer no way or support to let you back in.

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#135
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "use"?

How do you gain meaningful access to help/support without being able to sign-in to their help portal / ticket system? I've been exposed to that type of Kafkian catch-22 nightmare scenario all too many times :|

You call the phone number

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is Google Workplace where you pay $5/month/user for a google account including email and there is support

There is also 365 Basic, which is also $5 and gives you 1TB of Onedrive storage... By far a better email service and the 2fa just works.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't work with Google. If you cannot log into the account, their legal team won't accept that you are the account holder. Even if you provide passport and driving license etc., they can't be sure, because you didn't upload the passport and stuff when opening the account.

I'm having trouble deciding whether you talk about something that has happened or about something that could happen. Assuming it's the latter: given enough evidence that you are you (same name as the recipient, deep knowledge of the account, knowledge of the password, etc), any court would rule in your favor and force Google to turn over the account. But I would be willing to bet that, assuming you are no one "specia…

But there are also massive GDPR files for handing the data to the wrong person. Inaction is less risky.

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#139
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - you need backup codes and something else, like a password, SMS OTP, or access to the recovery email address.

Well yeah. If the recovery process is weaker than regular authentication, that's what bad guys will use for account takeover. You don't want to lose Gmail because someone bruteforced your backup code?

It would not be weaker then usual authentication... you would still need username and password.

Not sure why companies nowadays rely on your tiny device to provide a second password. Both my passwords and 2FAs are on that device, what security does it add?

And why do they need a password if they are going to require Timestamped-2FAs anyways?

Re: Tell HN: Lost then regained access to Google account, with correct credentials

#140

I perform a periodical backup of all my Google data with https://takeout.google.com/ if the sh*t would ever hit the fan.

As it stands, Google Takeout is not sufficient. While attempting to export data, you can still get a "sensitive action blocked" and "we can't verify it's really you"-style errors that indefinitely prevent access to that data. I've encountered this myself when trying to export my YouTube subscriptions, and it gave me pause when I considered that this could happen to more serious data. It's not a one-time issue, either, I've been retrying export for months now without success.

The responses I've seen to other people with this problem are not encouraging, amounting to "oh, you must have done something out of the ordinary, try again in a few days". See, for example:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20054083

https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/i6cn1x/google_...

https://support.google.com/accounts/thread/13380514/i-can%E2...

https://twitter.com/veerismo/status/1341605248834498561

Edit: better links

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