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Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

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Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#131

Post by thuccess129 »

rektide wrote: post #51
zamadatix wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are Apple's terms that Amazon is following, not the other way around. You are getting bare metal that you have to reserve for a minimum of 24 hours because that's how Apple allows it to be licensed not because that's what Amazon thought would make the most sense.

I have such a hard time imagining what sick twisting legal crap allows Apple to dictate terms like this. Another example is Nvidia explicitly dis-allowing their consumer GPUs to be used in data-centers. It's wild to me that company's can just make up whatever terms of use they feel like & we have to accept that. Edit: oh hello, i'm at -4! Anyone care to defend your outrage at my outrage? What makes this seem at all o…

> Edit: oh hello, i'm at -4! Anyone care to defend your outrage at my outrage?

The leadership sitting on a board with a mandatory retirement age at 65 who is 64 will lobby all involved to change that rule to keep going to 70. The terms are negotiable. You would have to think in our time of climate crisis that using 7 or 8 hours of a 24 hour slot and wasting all that energy for 16 hours is not something the law firm that negotiated the terms would be embarrassed by. To make it right, a regulator could force Apple to limit the rental minimum slot time according a labor board's idea of a programming work day at 7 to 16 hours and not 24. Write a letter and email your politician?

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#132

Post by jefftk »

mike_d wrote: post #104
yakkomajuri wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hope the NDA they referred to didn't have a clause about "not acknowledging the existence of the NDA" that many do. :D

I believe you are thinking of a NSL (National Security Letter). I've never seen an NDA that compelled secrecy regarding the agreement itself.

It is definitely a thing, and I may or may not have signed one

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#133

Post by handrous »

jefftk wrote: post #132
mike_d wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are thinking of a NSL (National Security Letter). I've never seen an NDA that compelled secrecy regarding the agreement itself.

It is definitely a thing, and I may or may not have signed one

Maybe it's to guard against the possibility of revealing what's covered by an NDA by answering yes or no to increasingly-detailed questions about what is and isn't covered by the NDA?

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#134

Post by R0b0t1 »

messe wrote: post #103
rektide wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have such a hard time imagining what sick twisting legal crap allows Apple to dictate terms like this. Another example is Nvidia explicitly dis-allowing their consumer GPUs to be used in data-centers. It's wild to me that company's can just make up whatever terms of use they feel like & we have to accept that. Edit: oh hello, i'm at -4! Anyone care to defend your outrage at my outrage? What makes this seem at all o…

> I have such a hard time imagining what sick twisting legal crap allows Apple to dictate terms like this. Another example is Nvidia explicitly dis-allowing their consumer GPUs to be used in data-centers. It's wild to me that company's can just make up whatever terms of use they feel like & we have to accept that. As far as I understand it, those EULA agreements aren't enforceable in the EU. That being said, NVIDIA d…

I don't think they're enforceable in the US either. Once you have it you have it. This is what a sale legally is, it terminates the rights of the former owner. They can refuse to sell to you if they think you'll do something with it, but if you get it from them by lying or from a second hand sale they can't do anything.

For software you can also have person A buy something, then give it to person B who didn't click a license agreement. But this isn't really necessary -- the case where Microsoft got slapped for motherboard locking Windows XP and had to undo it shows that if software is integral to the operation of a device rights to its use are transferred along with the sale of the item, much to the chagrin of CNC companies everywhere who have yet to be challenged on this.

It's relatively common for companies to use shell companies or employees to buy hardware off the record for investigative purposes. Place I used to work at would investigate buyers for this reason (difference being we really did give our customers free reign with the equipment, we just had to try to stop fraud and other things).

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#135

Post by handrous »

bogwog wrote: post #124

If M1 macs were like iPhones, where a new one was released every year, I could see it maybe being useful to pay for something like this. But since they aren’t, and since an M1 mini only costs $699, it doesn’t make sense to me. If you use it 24/7, even the cheapest provider is going to be more expensive than just buying one (or 3) Even if you only use it for building/compiling iOS software, it’s probably still cheaper…

Mac automation for things like CI is a pain in the ass (at least for small businesses) and their virtualization story for e.g. older version of the OS blows, despite having had a built-in hypervisor for a really long time.

"Load this specific OS, install these other programs, download some data, get it to this overall state, then run this script and send the output somewhere else, then destroy it when you're done" is actually a pretty big pain to do with macOS, without paying someone. Not that rentable M1 Macs solve that problem, exactly, but rentable, managed Macs in general can be useful for this, when you're renting from places with the automation in place to do easy virtualization or re-imaging.

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#136

Post by mcphage »

jffry wrote: post #45
mcphage wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to leave the machine running (and billing) 24/7/365—turning it on for a few hours a day when you're building for it, or testing builds, should be enough.

From https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/mac/#Pricing : "Amazon EC2 Mac instances are available for purchase as Dedicated Hosts through On Demand and Savings Plans pricing models. Billing for EC2 Mac instances is per second with a 24-hour minimum allocation period to comply with the Apple macOS Software License Agreement"

...well, poop. That sucks.

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#137

Post by JCM9 »

dougmwne wrote: post #20

It’s an interesting look at AWS pricing since the cost of the M1 Mac Mini ($699) and it’s power consumption (avg 26 watts) are known. Based on hardware costs (significant) and power costs (insignificant) you’re looking at a hardware ROI at about 6 months from the $.65 per hour price. AWS has an estimated 60% gross profit margin, so from there it’s probably possible to estimate some other interesting things about thei…

This is really not looking at the math in the right way for those that are the target market. If you just want an M1 instance just because sure just go buy one and keep in plugged in all the time in your basement. That’s not the target market.

Imagine you’re developing an app in regulated market and need to have Macs for CI/CD There’s a lot more to this than just keeping some Mac mini’s under your desk. How are you managing physical security in your environment? Do you have all the associated certifications in place? Can we see your last audit? Who’s fixing this when something breaks? What about your in house IT folks that done want to build out a whole new operation to manage Macs now? What if next week you need 5x as many instances but only for 2 days? That’s what your paying for in the price here, not just the cost of the instance itself and power.

When faced with all those requirements and challenges the pricing looks inexpensive.

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#139

Post by GhettoComputers »

sgjohnson wrote: post #121
GhettoComputers wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what?

Based on Apple not giving a shit what volume you’re buying, the price is the price. Maybe the rules are a bit different for Amazon, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Based on what?

https://www.apple.com/us-hed/store

https://images.apple.com/business-docs/VPP_Business_Guide.pd...

https://www.apple.com/retail/business/

> Our Small Business Experts are ready to help. They’ll advise you on the devices to fit your budget, including special pricing,* and find you the best financing option. All backed by ongoing support to give you much-needed peace of mind.

> * Special pricing available to qualified customers. To learn more about how to start qualifying toward special pricing, talk to a Business Team member in a store or give us a call at 1-800-854–3680.

Re: Amazon EC2 M1 Mac Instances

#140

Post by simondotau »

withinrafael wrote: post #56

GitHub Actions uses VMs. Not sure how they, and not Amazon, were able to pull this off. That subject is sensitive and reportedly under NDA. https://github.com/actions/virtual-environments/issues/2604#...

I’m not familiar with GitHub Actions but if you can’t directly interact with the MacOS operating system, then wouldn’t it really be GitHub “using” the operating system, not you?
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