Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet that cost goes down when employers don’t pay for your office space…
And my cost goes up when I pay for my own office space.
But you don't have a commute and can do stuff at home during work.
Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
131–140 of 250 posts
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the cost of living adjustment were “perfect” then it wouldn’t encourage employees to live in any particular place, right? Presumably the whole point is to give each employee the same “effective compensation” for their particular place of residence. Of course, it’s not so easy to agree on what the ideal method of cost of living adjustment would be.
Compensation should be adjusted to value created not expenses incurred.
Then some of my coworkers should pay the company.
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
The one true hybrid work model for tech (in my opinion anyway) is to just have everyone meet in-person in some cadence for sprint planning/PI planning/whatever your cycle is. Everybody syncs up every so often, and then you leave everyone the fuck alone while they go work. Zoom can handle one-off meetings for pairing or other quick questions, but planning out work/carving out architecture solutions is something better…
The odds are overwhelming that you do not and will never work on the kind of problems where such a minute advantage (if it even exists, which I doubt) makes any kind of difference to the bottom line. Most business related coding is at the end of the day exceedingly trivial. Requiring any sort of on-site time is a thought that belongs in the past.
> Most business related coding is at the end of the day exceedingly trivial.
It is technically trivial. Building business software is fundamentally a communication/knowledge problem with technical aspects.
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think most companies still consider your location when determining your pay. Facebook does for instance, even going as far as tracking your IP to make sure you're being honest. If you choose to move to a lower cost city, they'll adjust your wage. Not sure about the other way around. Truthfully, I don't see this working out in the long run. Companies like Facebook are making desperate grabs to keep control over ho…
> Truthfully, I don't see this working out in the long run. Companies like Facebook are making desperate grabs to keep control over how work is done and how it is compensated, but I believe market forces will kill efforts like ZIP code based compensation. I think you're right, but I don't think the end game is that everyone gets FAANG-level salaries everywhere. When companies realize that they can hire people for a f…
"A fraction?" How much less do you think they can pay? This sounds suspiciously like the myth of off-shoring, get the same work for a fraction of the cost, but from what I've heard the competent ones quickly command more pay and are certainly not "a fraction" of a SF salary.
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technology is not always the solution. If your employer asks you to affirm something, and you do that, and then cheat (because, let's say, cheating is technologically trivial), then you take a huge risk. A lot of people will not take that risk. It's enough to make example of 1 or 2 people who are caught, and the rest will fall in line in no time.
Is my opinion, the company is cheating the employee by paying them less for the same work just because they live somewhere else.
It has never worked differently. If you want to average out the pay you'll be paid much more closer to Bangladeshi pay than to SV one.
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technology is not always the solution. If your employer asks you to affirm something, and you do that, and then cheat (because, let's say, cheating is technologically trivial), then you take a huge risk. A lot of people will not take that risk. It's enough to make example of 1 or 2 people who are caught, and the rest will fall in line in no time.
Is my opinion, the company is cheating the employee by paying them less for the same work just because they live somewhere else.
One side fully presented the terms at the start. The other lied. If you don't like the terms, don't accept them. It isn't like facebook is the only employer.
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
You responded to something the author did not write using a quote taken entirely out of context. While the text of your message is fair and probably true (although outsourcing comes with chunky quality issues that frankly have not been solved yet), it is not at all topical.
I disagree that it was out of context either of the comment, or in the issue at large. It doesn't matter that in this comment, the particular context was ostensibly 'move to the city to work in the office then get paid more'. It's irrelevant - excessive demands in whatever form will be acquiesced by hiring better talent, elsewhere. American workers making any kinds of special demands are going to get outsourced. The…
> In reality, the articles should be: "American Corps. looking overseas to diversity talent". Because that's what's about to happen.
I've been hearing that since 2006. Yet American programmers still exist and still command a relatively high wage.
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll make whichever argument gets me the most money in a salary negotiation.
Which is short sighted if you value your time at all. Spending an hour more a day commuting is directly decreasing the value of your life.
You miss my point, then. If I have to spend that extra hour, I will argue that it needs to be compensated. If I get to WFH, I may argue that I'm paying for dedicated office space at home and that the value of my work is the same here as in the office.
Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#139Re: Wall Street grudgingly allows remote work as bankers dig in
#140I'm finding with the teams I'm working with that the junior employees are the ones most impacted by not working from an office, but they often don't realize what they're missing -- the less formal forms of mentorship, stronger community, interacting with more people that's not on their team and in their role, overhearing context, the ability to have a 3-min quick chat with a senior person without a scheduled meeting,…
As a junior employee (1 year experience, entirely remote), you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I've been having a miserable time working remote for all the reasons you've mentioned. It doesn't help that my team seems to really lean into independent work. The biggest thing that I wish I had was more opportunities to learn from senior devs. Now that I feel like I have enough experience to find a new job, I wil…
Most programming I have seen is independent work. You go off for a day or two and come back to share your results. For a junior dev, they need to be spending some time screen sharing to a senior and explaining what they have to get some feed back regularly.