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Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

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Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#131

Post by Jensson »

names_are_hard wrote: post #119
Jensson wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building an MVP backend is a lot easier, but there is no limit to how much work you can put into a backend to a typical app. Frontend is a pretty much solved problem, getting to that state takes longer than the backend MVP but after that there isn't that much more to do. Or do you think that reddit, twitter, facebook or google put more work into their frontends than everything that goes on in their backends? Recreati…

Found the backend dev. Really, this is very dependent on the kind of software you work in and what the focus of that software is. There's a wide world of software out there, with all different kinds of priorities and challenges.

> Really, this is very dependent on the kind of software you work in and what the focus of that software is. There's a wide world of software out there, with all different kinds of priorities and challenges.

That is included in what I said, many projects are fine with an MVP, that is why it is called MVP.

If your frontend is a game or some creator tool like photoshop then they will be complicated, but usually you don't call those frontends, and most frontend developers doesn't have the skills to make such products.

> Found the backend dev.

I've spent roughly equal time in both domains. Creating a frontend with the same quality as Google or Facebook isn't particularly hard (if you assume another guy did the UX design), it is tedious though. And that is basically all you have to be able to do to work as a frontend dev.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#132

Post by dukeyukey »

SilurianWenlock wrote: post #116
dukeyukey wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a combination of: * Less applicants for backend positions * The applicants we do have, for whatever reason don't pass interview at the rate frontend developers do * The backend devs that do pass interview, ask for too much money. We know where the problems are, and that third point especially is causing our hiring manager no end of pain. But convincing our execs to significantly up the budget of the probably-alr…

What do your interviews consist of for backend and for frontend devs?

First stage is a chat with a technical manager, second is a 1-2 hour technical interview with some live coding, then a final chat with our CEO.

I haven't joined any FE interviews,but I understand they're structured in a similar way.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#133

Post by DrBazza »

> Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

Generally easier? No.

Different domains, different problems.

Also "back end dev" is almost certainly not javascript or typescript on node, but I suspect that's what you're referring to.

It's likely to be Java, C#, C++ and so on. Then you have frameworks, patterns, and idioms to learn. And threading. And databases. And failover. And load balancing. And infrastructure. The list goes on.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#134

Post by littlecranky67 »

Jensson wrote: post #83
ricardobeat wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data / API / DB design will take 10%-20% of your time at most (unless you’re a DBA), maybe as low as 1% on a large company where almost everything you touch was made by someone else. In my experience (10+ years) backend is almost always faster when it comes to building apps. Not running your code on 300 different devices and OSs, or having to deal with 20 years of backwards compatibility is a big advantage. Plus the…

Building an MVP backend is a lot easier, but there is no limit to how much work you can put into a backend to a typical app. Frontend is a pretty much solved problem, getting to that state takes longer than the backend MVP but after that there isn't that much more to do. Or do you think that reddit, twitter, facebook or google put more work into their frontends than everything that goes on in their backends? Recreati…

Problem is, on a FE you cannot simply build an MVP. An MVP would mean black/white colors, no responsive, no design, no styling etc. It would look like shit, even if it could handle all the requirements perfectly. You always want a good looking FE, and it has to work and (continuously) be tested on a wide set of Browsers, Devices and Screen resolutions.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#135

Post by soneca »

I am a frontend developer, but from afar, backend looks harder.

I think the challenge is being able to look at all things that are new and choosing the ones that matter. From your post, I think you are failing hard at this.

I safely ignore Chrome inspector new features until it happens to be relevant enough for a coworker to mention to me. I don’t know much about animation, but probably could Google my way into it if required in a task.

Now, responsive layout and ES6? These are essential for frontend development for some time already. It is not like those are new hyped frameworks that some early adopters are jumping into, those are required knowledge since, idk, five years ago.

So there is this aspect of development work where you have to study new things. You don’t have to study all things all the time. But ES6 you are already a good few years late to learn it, there is no way around it. You don’t need to know about Vue and Svelte, but you have to know well at least one framework, and React is the most popular by far, so it is an obvious choice. And you have to keep up with most relevant new things of your framework of choice. React Hooks is starting to enter that zone of required things to know.

If you don’t have the will to study everything (most people don’t) choose wisely what you must know. But if you don’t have the will to study anything new, there is no way you can have a career in any aspect of software development.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#136

Post by littlecranky67 »

schwartzworld wrote: post #78
sshine wrote: post #31

I made the move from pure back-end to full-stack some years ago. I find that backend paradigms tend to not evolve as quickly, so perhaps this pace suits you better. The consumer of a back-end is either a front-end under management, or via public APIs, and both usually live a lot longer than most JS frameworks and website designs. Still, if you don’t mind drawing things in browsers and just don’t like the pace of thin…

> you could pick a front-end framework designed to have a low rate of sudden changes, e.g. Elm. React barely changes at all. The last major change was 3 years ago when they introduced hooks, which was not sudden. Even then they didn't deprecate the old way of doing things. You can write React today the same as you did in 2018 if you want.

React is a prime example of fast-change (even though not so fast as angular did). Since 2014, they changed their main programming paradigm 3 times (mixins/make*, real ES6 classes, now hooks). Then there was state management; first Flux, later Redux, then MobX became fashionably while today I start React projects without any state library and just use the stable context API + hooks. And let alone the plentheora of major changes in ReactRouter, which only became somewhat stable at version 4.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#137

Post by woutr_be »

nnoitra wrote: post #102
woutr_be wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that mean that both have the exact same responsibility? A bug in the FE, would essentially render the BE unusable, and therefore would cost a lot of money and time as well. For example; if Amazon's checkout button somehow broke, and prevent users from checking out, it would also cost a lot of money. EDIT: to give a more visual example, if Amazon changed their checkout button to a different color and style. I…

Much easier to fix a button then dive deep into why your algorithms which should work, don't work.

How so? If that button is part of a complex frontend, with multiple stylings who might inherit from each other, it could be quite a task to fix it correctly.

It's not as simple as just looking into your developer tools, and adding some CSS to it.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#138

Post by GuB-42 »

You shouldn't look for easier things. Your value comes from your ability to do things others can't do, i.e. hard things.

So your question should be instead: "what are the hard problems in back end dev that I think I will be good at dealing with?".

Generally I think the hard part of back end dev is all about data, which I consider to be the most important part of any software system, which means you have to do it right. If you are the kind of dev who don't really understand what he is doing, with good common sense and a bit of artistic skills, you can make decent front ends, but back end dev is not for you. If on the other hand, you like to get to the bottom of things but feel overwhelmed by all the mess browsers throw at you, you will be better at the back than on the front.

Really, is is not about easy or hard, it is about finding something you are good at.

Re: Ask HN: Is back end dev generally easier than front end?

#140

Post by NateEag »

schwartzworld wrote: post #75
nickd2001 wrote: post #64

IMHO, back-end is a better long-term career investment, as it changes slower, less faddish, and you learn skills applicable to many situations. Its not easier, if anything actually harder, but more satisfying in my experience. I've noticed many early-to mid 20s devs love front-end, the new and shiny, it feels creative and "cool" to them. However, they can crash at age 30+ when those front-end skills aren't cool anymo…

> learned lots of back-end and dev-ops-y stuff, bash scripting , linux etc I use shell scripts and Linux for front end every day. Modern frontend is quite programmatic. > However, they can crash at age 30+ when those front-end skills aren't cool anymore You've seen a lot of front enders age out of it? Why would this be? My whole team are frontenders in their 30s.

"Modern" web frontend work involves a lot of chasing after new tooling, frameworks, and libraries.

In your thirties, you're more likely to have a stable relationship and kids to care for.

If the tools you learned in your twenties age out of relevance, then you may well have a hard time retraining to new tools while raising small kids.

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