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Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

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Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#131

Post by tnolet »

swyx wrote: post #127
sxiao wrote: post #118

Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…

interesting that you think talking to a VC and starting a startup (where he would be spending >50% time on business things and be forced to come up with a monetization plan) is better for svelte than getting fulltime sponsorship to solely work on Svelte and working with the top tier talent at Vercel.

Exactly. I think the OP does not know what it means to "raise money" and go at it. It would turn that person into a full time business owner.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#132

Post by mdoms »

sxiao wrote: post #118

Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…

> I'm disappointed by Rich. Instead of thinking bigger, raising money (it would have been so easy, Rich, instead of doing proud conference talk after talk why didn't you talk to a VC??)—he just cashed out (sky-high compensation and ESOP). I lost all my respect. Not a rant to give you some background, one major reason we went with SvelteKit was not to rely on the Next team. And now, I am again with them.

Who the hell do you think you are? You don't know his situation. You don't know anything. How do you know he doesn't have a gravely ill family member and needs a steady income more than he needs to "think big" about a fucking javascript framework? How do you know he's not deeply in debt from a past mistake? How do you know he doesn't find the tech obsession with "VC" funding repugnant? No one needs sxiao's judgment.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#133

Post by bdougherty »

tuan wrote: post #109
jitl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your React component renders, it returns an object that describes the desired state of the component tree. Take this component: function MyComponent() { return Here's bold text } At runtime, React calls your component function and then applies the returned data to the DOM imperatively. If your component has rendered before, React needs to _diff_ the virtual DOM your latest render returned against the VDOM React…

So it sounds like the tradeoff here is that the generated bundle is more complicated/bigger. I'm not familiar with Svelt, but wondering about bundle size + debuggability.

At a certain size, yeah the bundle will be larger, but it would take a lot to get to that point. For pretty much anything you would do, the bundle will be much smaller. Especially if you use SvelteKit which is smarter about what is bundled and when it loads.

As for complexity, the generated Svelte code is extremely readable. Take a look at the generated JS tab in the repl: https://svelte.dev/repl

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#134

Post by Rauchg »

kadomony wrote: post #113
Rauchg wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey! Guillermo, CEO of Vercel here. Security is the absolute top priority at Vercel, and you should be seeing continued progress in that area in the coming weeks and months. We're heavily investing in security all the way from the SDK and its supply chain[1] to platform, product and cloud. We proudly use the best infrastructure and products available to help our customers scale without stress. AGA is quite incredible…

Hey Guillermo, Thanks for chiming in here. Unrelated, I saw that Vercel is ramping up hiring for designers. I’ve always worked in consumer-facing design spaces (banking, travel, etc.) and want to make a change toward something more dev-oriented like Vercel, but I worry being told that “I don’t have the right experience”. Does Vercel hire folks looking to change the industry they design for? I’m a senior IC in design…

Absolutely. A core goal for us is to Lower the Barrier of Entry[1] to building for the Web.

Building a beautiful and fast Web experience needs to feel myspace-code-easy (or as Rich Harris puts it: it has to be fun!). I think ultimately that's what makes the Web win long term. It's open and accessible.

The best way to contribute to this mission is to come in with a fresh mindset, passion and big ambitions. Please reach out: https://vercel.com/careers

[1] https://rauchg.com/2021/making-the-web-faster#realtime

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#135

Post by mixmastamyk »

sxiao wrote: post #118

Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…

The framework appears to have an MIT license and lots of contributors so I wouldn't worry too much.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#136

Post by afavour »

sxiao wrote: post #118

Am I the only one? Next just bought its biggest upcoming competitor—SvelteKit. Next is the best that React has to offer but it still has flaws. Svelte and SvelteKit are so awesome you cannot believe it before you've built something bigger and so much ahead of the entire React ecosystem. We migrated a huge/complex React app in a month and the difference is night and day (performance/bundle size/dev productivity). Reac…

> Instead of thinking bigger, raising money (it would have been so easy, Rich, instead of doing proud conference talk after talk why didn't you talk to a VC??)

In no world would taking VC funding have been easier. They’d want cash returns and hockey stick growth, and soon. So instead of focusing on making the framework as good as it could be, Rich’s attention would be diverted.

When SvelteKit becomes a framework impossible to run on anything that isn’t a Vercel platform, then maybe I’ll be outraged. Until then, subjecting an incredibly talented developer to the day-to-day whims of VCs seems like just about the worst outcome for everyone.

I don’t normally mean to sound uncharitable but your original comment is pretty uncharitable to Rich, so: if you want a stable platform that will live for many years to come, the absolute last thing you want is for it to take VC investment. That you don’t see this speaks volumes to your understanding of how any of this works.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#137

Post by PaulBGD_ »

I'm sure he'll see this soon, so congrats Rich! Svelte has been a cool project since the beginning, and I'm excited to see Rich have more time to work on this. As an early contributor I've seen Svelte go through a lot of maturing and it's exciting to see it finally getting the recognition it deserves lately.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#138

Post by sxiao »

ravenstine wrote: post #68

Awesome news! Having worked with frontend frameworks for years, I've grown pessimistic about them in general, but I'm enthusiastic about Svelte because it does so many things right that actually avoid a lot of the issues other frameworks claim to solve but actually make worse. Interacting with the Svelte compiler is ridiculously easy. Though the documentation can be improved, I found it trivial to import the Svelte c…

Why is this 'awesome news' for us devs, the market and competition if one vendor now controls all modern SSR frameworks plus significant parts of the tool chain (swc)?

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#139

Post by benmccann »

mwcampbell wrote: post #116
rce wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SvelteKit has an out-of-the-box adapter for Cloudflare workers: https://github.com/sveltejs/kit/tree/master/packages/adapter...

I hope that Rich joining Vercel doesn't end up compromising SvelteKit's current neutrality when it comes to deployment targets.

As a heavy contributor to SvelteKit, I can't see a loss in neutrality happening. I personally use other hosting platforms frequently with SvelteKit, both Rich and Vercel have expressed they want to avoid this outcome, and other SvelteKit maintainers work full-time at Vercel competitors and also wouldn't let that happen ;-)

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#140

Post by sxiao »

benmccann wrote: post #107
tekkk wrote: post #29

Wow, this should be great news for Svelte and SvelteKit! Hopefully with Vercel's backing these projects will fly off. Having worked with React for about 5 years (with a project in Vue in-between) and now having dabbled with Svelte, there is just something more appealing working with less higher-level abstractions. Sure with large apps React does have its benefits and its ecosystem is larger by a good amount. But ther…

> Fixing dev server errors is a little distracting at times You will be very pleased with the upcoming release of Vite 2.7! It's by far the most impactful release of Vite thus far for SvelteKit. All the major known issues we've been tracking have been addressed in the latest Vite 2.7 beta (assuming that one of the PRs we're still working out the kinks of doesn't get rolled back, but either way it'll be a huge improve…

Ben, please don't surprise us and tell that you are the next one on Vercel's payroll.
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