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Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

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Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#131

Post by habi »

commoner wrote: post #120
Nextgrid wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the question is whether using Google or HERE (plus the Facebook SDK) would be more of a privacy violation Well unless you absolutely never use Google (which is hard), you're better off using Maps (as they track you anyway from occasional usage), where as it's easier to never use Facebook (in fact all Facebook IPs are outright blocked on my networks) so it's better to not provide any data to them at all. So for me i…

Apple incorporates OSM data into its maps for some regions, and Apple is also the most prolific corporate data contributor to OSM,* so I agree that Apple Maps is a great alternative to Google Maps. Unfortunately, it's not available on Android or as a web app. * https://joemorrison.medium.com/openstreetmap-is-having-a-mom...

DuckDuckGo implements Apple Maps on the web; e.g. see https://duckduckgo.com/?q=london&ia=web&iaxm=maps

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#132

Post by eru »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #123
JohnWhigham wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if only those stupid warehouse workers would listen to me , the enlightened tech worker who is making many multiples of what they are. I know what is best for you! You realize how disgustingly patronizing you sound?

The comment you're replying to is, I think, sarcastic. The point being that the Amazon employees aren't that stupid and can think for themselves. Maybe they're just not interested in joining a union that Amazon could easily allow to walk out and hire a different set of unskilled workers. Your sibling comment is the patronizing one.

Thanks, yes. I was being exceedingly sarcastic.

I do very much believe that by-and-large Amazon employees adults in their warehouses who can think for themselves.

(The weasel phrase 'by-and-large' is in there, because in any big enough group of people you'll always have a few fools, and their existence shouldn't detract from my argument.

And also perhaps Amazon also managed to hire some people with real medical / clinically diagnosed cognitive impairments and give them productive jobs. The latter would be great news for diversity and inclusion, and just general humanity.)

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#133

Post by eru »

BurningPenguin wrote: post #118
nonameiguess wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least three reasons: 1) A whole lot of propaganda effort has gone into spreading anti-union sentiment for at least over a century, from the very deep pockets of the richest private actors in the world, like Amazon. Since they managed to capture half the politicians, it has become a culture war issue to the point that being pro and anti union is more a marker of personal identity than a reasoned position. 2) Histor…

Huh, i guess i learned some new things today. I heard about allegations of them being criminal. Usually i'd file such claims under "conspiracy crap", because until now nobody bothered to explain why. Also i didn't know that being in a union can be mandatory. Here in Germany it's up to you if you want to be part of it or not. With it comes plenty of advantages, like legal protection insurance for work related legal is…

Unions in Germany are sort-of mandatory. In the sense that whatever the unions negotiate also has legal consequences for non-union members. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarifbindung

About legality: have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-show_job and https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/nyregion/no-show-jobs-tai...

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#134

Post by eru »

BurningPenguin wrote: post #113
dspillett wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are relatively controversial everywhere. In the UK and other parts of Europe, for instance, they also divide opinion, either generally or in specific cases where they are accused of over-reach. In the US I get the impression they are more controversial, perhaps because they are less common (so it is easier for those against to make mountains out of molehills because the public in general are less aware where t…

In Germany it's not as bad as in the US. It's more of a mixed bag. Some people are pro, some are con and some don't care. But there is not that amount of pure hatred against unions. There are some unions that retrieve heavy criticism, because of their behaviour in negotiations or public announcements. But we don't want to get rid of all of them.

I guess on average Germany is just not as polarized about unions (and other things) as the US.

If you only ever look online, you would say that American unions mostly have fanatical proponents. (Because people who express opinions online are more likely to be leftist, I guess, and everything about American politics is polarised.)

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#135

Post by AnthonyMouse »

93po wrote: post #127
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get this argument. You lose 100% of income, assuming this is your only job, but only until you get another one, which could be right away, and in the meantime if they terminate you without cause you get unemployment for long enough that most people will be able to find another job. Meanwhile this criticism is inversely correlated with the utility of a union. If you're in a market where the company is h…

>they can just let the union walk out and hire a bunch of different unskilled fungible peons. So it doesn't work for e.g. Amazon warehouse workers there's no way Amazon could come close to functioning if their warehouse workers unionized and walked out. it would take them years to find enough people to fully staff their warehouses again and it'd cost them billions of dollars

They have warehouses all over the country and all over the world. If any of them shut down, they could temporarily send product from the others.

Why would it take years to find more unskilled labor? They could literally park a bus in front of the unemployment office in the morning, load people onto it and be running again by the end of the day.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#136

Post by sdoering »

lucumo wrote: post #88
sdoering wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I regularly encounter is a typical "Tragedy of the Commons" problem with Google Maps. When they do route me, they often tend to route me through residential areas (in Germany these are often traffic reduced areas with respective speed limits). I imagine it is, because these routes tend to be very slightly shorter and often also at least a few seconds shorter in average duration. I tend to use these "Schleic…

In The Netherlands these shortcuts are usually removed or made less attractive. For example, closing a street halfway, so people can still reach both ends, but can't pass through. Or they build a retractable bollard that will delay traffic during high traffic hours. The delay is just long enough that using the shortcut takes longer than just using the main road.

I would actually love solutions like these. But sadly oftentimes they are not put into place even when the residents fight for it. Additionally the costs of such measures are afterwards invoiced to the residents in most municipalities as they are allowed to have the residents pay for work on the infrastructure.

I remember my father and our whole street fighting (including a court case) against the city because they wanted to rebuild the street at the bottleneck (there was a mud path connecting our street to another one leading to the highway. The neighbors feared a massive traffic increase (and rightly so).

They lost. The city connected the residential area with the other street. And to add insult to injury afterwards all residents had to cover the costs of this measure.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#137

Post by chalst »

sokoloff wrote: post #51
giga_chad wrote: post #26

Google has us all by the balls. As a small business owner, in my particular market, I can't survive without their services, even though they suck and I hate them, and their entire company. My business can be destroyed by Google on a whim at a moment's notice. How did it get to be so bad?

Same way that Apple, Amazon, or Facebook got to where they are: working to give users what users want (or think they want).

Are you aware that both Facebook and Amazon have used their market dominance and ability to buy smaller firms to prevent serious threats from emerging?

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#138

Post by henvic »

kibwen wrote: post #108
henvic wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what... The more regulation, the harder it is to compete against too-big-to-fail well stablished corporations. It's like no one here ever heard what regulatory capture or lobby is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture Google is right in this case, but people will fail to recognize it, and ask for more state overreach that will end up making it harder to have multiple options in the future.

Competition is important for the well-being of consumers. However, it is in the nature of markets that over time they will experience consolidation and centralization, due to the benefits of network effects and economies of scale. This consolidation reduces competition, harming consumers. It is the necessary role of government to occasionally step in and break up such companies, to forcibly reintroduce competition. T…

> It is the necessary role of government to occasionally step in and break up such companies, to forcibly reintroduce competition. That's the form of regulation that we need right now. Break these megacorporations up.

What you're mentioning is both unjust and unproductive if the company grows thanks to satisfying customers.

It's also a recipe for disaster:

Trying to break down megacorporations usually ends up creating even bigger megacorporations. You try to do so, and what you end up with is lobby groups, even more powerful conglomerate/holdings well established somewhere they can do it with advantages over the regular Mom and Pop stores that don't have access to this level of economies of scale and so on.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#139

Post by 555513 »

gambiting wrote: post #125
smt88 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a car with "Android OS" -- it's not just some random car. Complaining about Google Maps on that car is like complaining about Google Maps on your Google Home screen. If you buy a car that is advertised as having Google software, you're going to get Google software.

Yes, but my point is that more and more cars are scheduled to have this as default. So going forward it will be harder and harder to escape the total and complete domination of Google Maps everywhere. That's why I said regulators will have to get involved at some point.

Except that's also an issue with Volvo and Polestar being late at implementing CarPlay.

Renault & GM, both of which demoed their AAOS version, enabled both CarPlay and Android Auto, so you could use another nav "app" with Android Automotive via projection.

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