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Safari Ruined My Tuesday

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Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#131

Post by PeterisP »

tediousdemise wrote: post #129
PeterisP wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully disagree. IMHO other open tabs are part of the current app state (not its history) just as the currently active tab. Do you expect clearing history to close the window you are currently looking at? None of the multiple browsers I use would close any open tabs when you clear browser history, at least on computers - mobile UX might be different, though, but I don't use mobile browsing much perhaps this is a sou…

Leaving a million tabs open is analogous leaving all your silverware on your countertop instead of putting it in a drawer where it belongs. Regardless of how convenient it is, it's chaotic and incorrect user behavior. People need to take accountability for not using internet browsers correctly. Learn from your mistakes. PEBKAC. This actually gave me an idea: a web browser with a feature that automatically saves open…

If I have two tabs open, click "erase history" and one of these two tabs gets discarded, I have "used browsers correctly" (unless using the browser-provided tab functionality is always wrong) and still lost current application state. In such a situation there is no mistake to learn from, just broken user expectations (since no other browser does it that way) i.e. broken UX.

Also, I must point out that your choice of words with respect to users who have different habits than you - "PEBKAC", "need to take accountability for not using browsers correctly" is condescending, arrogant and simply rude - please do not do that. Not respecting users' choices and behavior is not an appropriate way to design user interfaces and is not an appropriate position from which to argue how user interfaces should be implemented. If browsers provide functionality for more than one tab, then browsers must work properly for more than one tab. In this case, the expected functionality for n=2 is the same as for n=1000, so the number of open tabs is not particularly relevant.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#132

Post by tinus_hn »

chrisseaton wrote: post #103
Vinnl wrote: post #75

Heh, reading the title I thought this was going to be someone losing all their tabs because "clear history" on mobile Safari apparently does that: https://twitter.com/SaraSoueidan/status/1457307545815732233 > Oh dear God.. Clearing history on Safari iOS closes all currently-opened tabs?! Why is there nothing that warns you of that?! Why does clearing history on mobile work differently from the way it does on mac? I h…

> I had 60+ important tabs open and now they're gone!! This just doesn't seem a reasonable expectation that these are preserved - they would also be lost if the computer crashed wouldn't they? If it's important then save it.

They do persist. To the point of people forgetting that they are ephemeral.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#133

Post by philo23 »

easton wrote: post #92
philo23 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Safari is now the only big non-evergreen browser remaining out there, and I think it's really holding it back. On both security fixes and features. I hope some point in the future Apple untie Safari from macOS and iOS so they can be updated independently without having to wait months to operating system updates to come out..

Safari actually does get backported to previous macOS releases, at least during betas. You can run the Safari "Technology Preview" on n-1 macOS. https://developer.apple.com/safari/technology-preview/ But they aren't backported on iOS, I assume purely for marketing (look at our new tab layout! you'll get it in the fall), which doesn't make sense considering the last time anyone cared about a browser feature was probab…

Yeah they've always updated Safari on the previous version of macOS, but that's pretty far from being evergreen, and the average user isn't going to be using the technology preview.

Take Chrome for example, where there's roughly an update every 60 days and the option for them to push out security fixes quicker.

Imagine having to wait for an operating system update (major or minor version) to just get the latest secure version of Chrome. That's pretty much where Safari is, especially on iOS.

Don't get me wrong, I think Safari gets a lot of unwarranted hate and it can certainly be a bit quirky here and there, but if they didn't have to wait for the next major/minor release of macOS/iOS to update Safari I think it'd be in a much better place.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#134

Post by tomxor »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #84
reaperducer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be surprised how often a CSS bug will break an entire site. I've seen it many times in my decades.

Oh, I’ve got a good one about this. Back in 2000, I was living in a new city, and cold-calling graphic design firms. At the time, most of the web looked like utter ass, and my feeling was that it made more sense to try to be the in-house developer for designers, rather than try to bring design to web development firms. So I put together a resume with my personal URL placed prominently across the top, and knocked on t…

Similar story, I made an IE6 PNG transparency "fix" that used some IE specific image filter language (I can't even remember what anymore).

On some computers without enough memory the "fix" crashed the entire OS with a bluescreen (no idea what the bug was because I didn't have windows, and because... well it's windows, I think I developed it in WINE!). I only found this out through a client complaining about their clients computers bluescreening when visiting their site... this was probably 2008-ish, so not exactly peak IE6, but it was the phase where a bunch of orgs still forced everyone to use it under the ridiculous premise of "security".

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#135

Post by jabbany »

breakfastduck wrote: post #98
jabbany wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, so I'm assuming from this post that this same Safari CSS bug is present in GNOME Web too? 'Cause if it isn't then it's not really a good proxy for testing Safari behavior in this context...

WebKit is the engine safari uses so anything that uses WebKit should in theory provide the exact same rendering experience.

Safari itself is not open source so it's unclear how much/little they have modified WebKit and the JavaScript engine. Given that this bug involves JS (events not firing), and MacOS doing its own thing with JS, it's entirely possible that this is a Safari only bug that resides in the proprietary parts of the codebase...

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#136

Post by ksec »

hvis wrote: post #113
chrisseaton wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had 60+ important tabs open and now they're gone!! This just doesn't seem a reasonable expectation that these are preserved - they would also be lost if the computer crashed wouldn't they? If it's important then save it.

Browsers these days routinely persist the contents of the current session to disk, exactly to defend against a crash (computer or the application itself). Of course, bugs and disk corruption happen, but you need more than a computer crash to lose all your tabs.

>Of course, bugs and disk corruption happen

And Firefox has multiple backup of sessions to the point even if your previous session was corrupted you can still recover a session saved slightly earlier. This was partly done because there are people ( like me ) who have hundreds if not thousands of Tabs opened and they ( me ) complain a lot about it.

Chrome made something similar and put in protection that may corrupt the ex-session files. To the point for nearly a decade browsers have had bullet proof session restore. ( Apart from Safari which still happens from time to time )

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#137

Post by hvis »

ksec wrote: post #136
hvis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsers these days routinely persist the contents of the current session to disk, exactly to defend against a crash (computer or the application itself). Of course, bugs and disk corruption happen, but you need more than a computer crash to lose all your tabs.

>Of course, bugs and disk corruption happen And Firefox has multiple backup of sessions to the point even if your previous session was corrupted you can still recover a session saved slightly earlier. This was partly done because there are people ( like me ) who have hundreds if not thousands of Tabs opened and they ( me ) complain a lot about it. Chrome made something similar and put in protection that may corrupt t…

> And Firefox has multiple backup of sessions to the point even if your previous session was corrupted you can still recover a session saved slightly earlier.

Yup. You might have to root around in the profile's directory, though, which not every user knows how to do.

But it being a possibility is absolutely great.

> This was partly done because there are people ( like me ) who have hundreds if not thousands of Tabs opened and they ( me ) complain a lot about it.

Same.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#138

Post by Vinnl »

tediousdemise wrote: post #90
Vinnl wrote: post #75

Heh, reading the title I thought this was going to be someone losing all their tabs because "clear history" on mobile Safari apparently does that: https://twitter.com/SaraSoueidan/status/1457307545815732233 > Oh dear God.. Clearing history on Safari iOS closes all currently-opened tabs?! Why is there nothing that warns you of that?! Why does clearing history on mobile work differently from the way it does on mac? I h…

It boggles my mind that people use tabs like bookmarks. Not only does this usually destroy your available RAM, but its just not the right tool for the job. You are using a hammer like a screwdriver. To each their own, I guess. Just don't get mad when your browser crashes from overloading with tabs, or when you clear your history and it triggers the expected behavior of closing them. It would be a huge privacy concern…

> when you clear your history and it triggers the expected behavior of closing them

As the tweeter mentions, no other browser has that behaviour, nor does Safari on MacOS, nor did older versions. A sibling comment also reported not being able to reproduce it, so it sounds like a bug - in any case, definitely not expected behaviour.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#139

Post by merrywhether »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #107
merrywhether wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like that they do this and let me use the UI I know and that will definitely work. 99% your video playback UX is not as good and you mostly want to take over full-screen so you can prevent the user from doing things (you may fall in the 1%, but I’m generalizing so apologies if you’re one of the few exceptions). It’s annoying on the iPad when sites build half-cocked full-screen UIs with buggy custom control…

As mentioned, our app is WebGL i.e. interactive real-time rendering, not at all video playback. That said, I agree with you on custom video UIs being horrid.

Oh neat, and sorry for missing that. I can totally see why you might have valid reasons for that.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#140

Post by joconde »

Someone wrote: post #128
Vinnl wrote: post #75

Heh, reading the title I thought this was going to be someone losing all their tabs because "clear history" on mobile Safari apparently does that: https://twitter.com/SaraSoueidan/status/1457307545815732233 > Oh dear God.. Clearing history on Safari iOS closes all currently-opened tabs?! Why is there nothing that warns you of that?! Why does clearing history on mobile work differently from the way it does on mac? I h…

Tried that. Cannot reproduce (iOS 15.1; iPhone and iPad). I have seen iOS on iPad suddenly start with a set of tabs from some time ago, though, and that can look identical to “losing all tabs”. Can’t repro that either, but it seems to happen after one runs multiple Safari’s side by side and then went back to full-screen (if you do that, multiple Safari’s show up in the Task Switcher) Either way I think this is a bug,…

When I clear history from the Settings app, it closes all tabs (at least it did when I tried a few months ago). When I clear from Safari itself, it doesn't close tabs. Maybe you did the latter?
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