Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean SpaceX is trying to colonize mars, if it doesn't manage to pull off this risky gambit we might as well make our only livable planet unlivable in the process. Seems like a good way to operate. At least we will have some cool space tech too.
There is currently no known way a Mars colony could be economically self sustaining or self contained. Literally zero. So unless there is something truly magical up someone’s sleeve, we need to keep Earth workable for us for the foreseeable future. And I think that is a good thing.
Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
131–140 of 203 posts
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Texas was an inspired choice - California would have been a knife fight regulatorily. California is also just on the wrong coast. You almost always want to launch eastward so you get the free rotational velocity from the earth to help you reach orbit, for the same reason you want to be as close to the equator as possible, and you can't (regulatory/safety wise) have a flight path over land. From within mainland US t…
Not being able to fly over land seems ridiculous. Planes fly over land, right? Sounds like the same shit as nuclear power plant regulations. As a civilization or even a species, we'll "safety" our way into extinction.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2015/01/04/photos-long-march-rock...
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#133The context here seems to be that SpaceX is in fact building an old boring fracked well gas plant in federally protected land, but because they cursorily mention rockets and call it a "methane processing thingamajig" instead of what it plain is, the FAA who has no experience doing environmental review but is involved because rockets is all too happy to just nod it through.
Some more context. If I understand correctly this gas plant is need to power a desalination plant which is need to produce massive amounts of water which will be used to implement a sound suppression deluge system that is required by the FAA. Salt water will corrode everything and there isn't existing water and gas infrastructure in place to lean on. ie they have to build the stack from scratch.
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps there's a more efficient place to build the facility, perhaps someplace with abundant water so that you don't have to spend all this energy to create it?
I don't think there is. You need water to your east (because you can't fly over people for safety reasons), for a really long way. As in launches from texas have to dodge Florida, Cuba and all the other islands over there. You need very low population density (because rocket launches and landings require large exclusion zones). You need to be in the US, because of export restrictions. You want to be as far south as p…
It is absolutely true that a rocket launched at the equator gets the biggest boost from the Earth's rotation, but stuff isn't put into orbit just for fun, it's often because you want it pass over a specified part of the Earth's surface. To pass over CONUS you need some inclination, and the more inclined an orbit is the less assist you get from the planet's rotation. A polar orbit (inclination 90 degrees) has no assist, and a sun-synchronous orbit is slightly retrograde, where you then want to launch as far north as possible, so you don't have to cancel out as much rotation velocity!
The Soviets put their launch site at 45.9 degrees north not because they're bizarrely stupid, but because they'd like their orbits to pass over Russia. Similarly, no Starlink satellite has had an inclination lower than 42 degrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Constellation_design_...
Going forward, depending on how much interplanetary traffic there will be, you can imagine Guiana Space Centre (Which is currently hosting JWST, destined for a Lagrange point) will see more traffic, but right now almost everything has some amount of inclination.
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s like the one company on earth actually concretely trying to change that …
Not in this case, apparently, and definitely not the only company, not even in the auto industry.
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#136Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#137The context here seems to be that SpaceX is in fact building an old boring fracked well gas plant in federally protected land, but because they cursorily mention rockets and call it a "methane processing thingamajig" instead of what it plain is, the FAA who has no experience doing environmental review but is involved because rockets is all too happy to just nod it through.
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've cited every single claim I've made. And no, I'm not a fan of Musk. From a legal and technical standpoint, My work has been run through legal, environmental, and oil and gas engineers I've worked with over the years.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted but the GP comment had a very specific request, link to the data source. You've no doubt got those links somewhere right? Adding a post of links to all the public filings would be a real asset here.
The core of this particular argument is the following:
> Think about it like this. We have 3 variables:
> 1. Inlet Gas Flow rate (measured by mmscf/d but easily convertible to pounds methane equiv.)
> 2. The VOC content mass % of the inlet stream
> 3. The Loss Rate through leaks in valves, fittings, etc. This is the fraction of the total inlet stream is lost to the air
> We simply multiply these three items together to get:
> 4. The VOC emission rate in tons per year (US short tons are EPA standard)
> Since we know #4 (The PEA told us), we know #2 (Pipeline Quality Gas is always #1 is what this post is trying to calculate, to see what is or isn't reasonable.
#4 is the PEA: https://www.faa.gov/space/stakeholder_engagement/spacex_star...
And is basically the starting point of all calculations. Just Ctrl-F "45.8", the number that ESG_Hound uses in his excel-spreadsheet. That gets you to page 44, the number seems to check out. This post is trying to answer the question: when they wrote this PEA, what assumptions did the engineers make?
#3 is a reasonable assumption that doesn't change much.
The last variable is #2: which has two paths:
1. 99.9% pure pipeline methane -- When we plug in 99.9% pure methane into the calculations, the numbers are absurd. This is a "disproof by absurdity". So we know it can't be 99.9% methane from standard pipelines.
2. Maybe its "raw" methane from a well (varies from 3% to 10%). -- When plugging in these numbers, we calculate a 4.77% VOC rate, which suggests that all the calculations in the PEA were done __ASSUMING__ raw methane.
Now sure, our model isn't going to be the same model as whoever prepared this PEA. but we're probably going to be "within the same magnitude". Calculations, when done independently, will rhyme.
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It seems like a simple argument to me. What part of the discussion are people getting tripped up on?
When using 99.9% pure methane, the amount of Mega-scf of natural gas goes completely out of whack with any reasonable excel-sheet formula. As such, 99.9% pipeline methane cannot be the source of SpaceX's methane (at least, not with the assumptions listed in the PEA).
Does anyone have a problem with any of the assumed numbers? #1, #2, #3 or #4?
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So the QED is: SpaceX, when they wrote this PEA, assumed they'd be using raw, untreated natural gas straight from a well. Why would they make this assumption? Is SpaceX planning to set up a pre-treatment natural gas plant inside of Starbase?
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think there is. You need water to your east (because you can't fly over people for safety reasons), for a really long way. As in launches from texas have to dodge Florida, Cuba and all the other islands over there. You need very low population density (because rocket launches and landings require large exclusion zones). You need to be in the US, because of export restrictions. You want to be as far south as p…
Thank you! Now I'm thinking of course ... Puerto Rico? I don't know how much fresh water there is, or if there's available and suitable land on the east coast. Are Georgia or South Carolina too far north?
To put some numbers on the "north"ness.
Boca chica is at 26 degrees north, which gives you 416 m/s free velocity (1500 km/h) [1]. The southernmost point of Georgia's coast is at 30 degrees or 401 m/s, the southernmost point of South Carolina's coast is at 32 degrees or 393 m/s.
Actually calculating payload to orbit is more work that I don't really want to do, but you can find someone else who put in the work on this stack overflow question [2], just for different latitudes and a different rocket. 28 to 30 degrees is roughly a .3% change in payload capacity in their model.
You're definitely not the first to suggest Peurto Rico, but I think you have the same problem of there not being enough empty land [3].
[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=%28%282+*+pi+*+6378.14+km+%2...
[2] https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/998/how-much-of-an...
[3] https://www.quora.com/Why-don-t-we-build-a-rocket-launch-sit...
Re: Engineer demos how SpaceX is building fracked well gas plant
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not being able to fly over land seems ridiculous. Planes fly over land, right? Sounds like the same shit as nuclear power plant regulations. As a civilization or even a species, we'll "safety" our way into extinction.
Rockets also drop parts as they fly - see what's happened in China with their inland launches. https://spaceflightnow.com/2015/01/04/photos-long-march-rock...