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Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

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Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I appreciate your response on this, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the following two points specifically: - Why have you chosen to make users opt out of a subscription when the free trial ends, rather than letting them opt in? - Why is the annual payment option pushed so hard, in favour of the monthly payment option? I'm reiterating this because promoting an opt-in, monthly payment model (thus givi…

Thanks for the follow-up questions. We're actually working on several different sign-ups flows at the moment including opt-in post free trial, longer free trial, web sign-up and one-off purchase vs subscription. It is not our intention to push annual significantly over monthly - we wanted to give a significant discount to yearly subscribers but perhaps the difference between the two is too large. The previously menti…

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Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#132

Does therapy actually work? I’ve always been under the impression that it was mostly placebo, and that only medication produces meaningful results. Happy to be proven wrong though

During my diagnosis I discussed both pharmaceutical and therapy options with my psychiatrist. His take, which is definitely subject to his own biases, was "lots of my patients choose to do both therapy and pharmaceuticals, but after starting the drugs they kind of lose interest in the therapy part of things because the drugs work so well for most patients. Not all. Some have benefited tremendously from therapy."

Most people seem to think that medication for ADHD is great, but for my son, the side effects were unacceptable: nausea, vomiting, extreme irritability. If therapy is even an option, none of the medical professionals we’ve spoken to has offered it. Maybe it’s because he’s on the young side (7). Anyway, it’s frustrating that everyone sees medication as the answer when the side effects are so awful—but maybe our experience is outside the norm.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#133

I wish you luck! I have the opposite issue. I'm ... what do you call it? neurodiverse (at one time, I was an "aspie"), and I can actually get locked into a fugue, so strong, that hours go by like minutes. In the aggregate, it has worked out OK. I'm a damn good programmer (but a total nerd). I do have family that have suffered from ADHD, and hope that your app may be helpful.

> and I can actually get locked into a fugue, so strong, that hours go by like minutes. Is this not a normal occurrence? I thought this is just how it is for everyone when they encounter a problem that captivates them.

Sure. It's just that the rest of the time people without ADHD can sit still for longer than ten minutes and don't uncontrollably interrupt people while talking.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#135
post #32

I was excited to try it and gave up during sign-up because there's no free option. The 7-day limited trial of the paid version isn't the same as a free tier.

A lot of work goes into building and continually improving a product like Inflow and we need to charge a subscription fee for it to be viable. We believe that being more affordable than other options which means many more people are able to access the support that they otherwise would not have access to.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#136

Many of the reviews of the Android app are quite critical of the trial and payment model, for example: > CAUTION: After the free trial period (7 days), they will charge for an annual subscription ($102.95 US). This is OPT OUT, not opt in. In other reviews they say they will offer a refund (I will update when/if I get one) but for an app for people with executive function issues, an opt out format seems shady. Either…

Thanks for highlighting this - we're trying to figure out what the best model is for our community. A lot of other apps follow a similar model, we allow people to cancel anytime and have refunded everyone that has forgotten to cancel. Some people also like having the subscription because it is a pay per use model rather than putting everyone under the same one-off bundle. We're working on extending the free trial / m…

I don't know the founders and have not tried the product, but I'm building a business in the consumer subscription space so I'll post a few things that might clarify why they could end up with this model even with good intentions. I'll also add that I don't know much about the science/behavior of folks with ADHD, so I won't try to talk about that piece at all.

First, the app stores are pretty prescriptive about how you handle introductory trials on subscriptions (especially Apple), which means you are usually stuck with "start trial + opt-out" as the only viable model if you're billing through the App Store.

Second, behavioral/commitment theory often shows that for apps or really any behavior change that requires some effort, a longer time commitment/investment gets people to actually invest the effort they need to actually get value out of the product. If you let people pay for a month, they won't actually put in any effort and then at the end of the month they'll be like "I'm not getting any value here" and they'll just cancel. They won't put in the effort to build the habits. So most wellness apps/products (from meditation/fitness apps to gym memberships) end up with some sort of free trial period, followed by an annual commitment (and if there's a monthly option, it's at a steep hike from the annual one).

Finally, when you're early on in the life of your startup, you're mostly trying to get to product-market fit and see whether people are willing to use / pay for what you've built. You just choose a pricing period/plan that makes sense, focus on the product, then when you get the product where you want, you go back and experiment with finding the ideal pricing plan for you and your users.

That said, it's clear in this case that this model may not be great for the target audience (in fact, even for neurotypicals, canceling subscriptions and such is still a challenge to manage). And obviously the app creators could have put more thought into it.

We ended up with an opt-out free trial plan as per Apple's rules on iOS, with a monthly plan where the yearly plan is a 25% discount if you choose it, and several reminders before the trial converts to paid. We also allow users to do a standard opt-in plan if they're not signing up through iOS (ie only need to put credit card after trial expires). We offer refunds where we can for people who got billed but didn't intend to, but Apple has to process those refunds too.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#137

Does therapy actually work? I’ve always been under the impression that it was mostly placebo, and that only medication produces meaningful results. Happy to be proven wrong though

Each ADHD individual is unique and will have unique responses to therapy, medication and other treatments or self-help measures. While we have worked hard to build Inflow for all members of our extremely diverse community, we acknowledge it may not be right for everyone.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#138

The ADD (1980) / ADHD (1989) world has always been fairly shady in my opinion. The argument that this disability was invented rather than discovered so that pharmaceutical outfits could push amphetamines on kids is fairly valid, and a lot of the 'adult ADHD' behaviors seem equally explainable as a side effect of amphetamine addiction: > "ADHD drugs, such as Adderall and Ritalin, increase levels of the brain chemical…

Recreational stimulant users use 10x to 50x higher dose then ADHD users. 20mg vs 1000mg of the same drug produces very different effects. If you are serious about treating your ADHD you take the minimum effective dose because if you become tolerant it stops working.

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/drug-users-use-a-lot-o...

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are we holding this new startup to a standard we don't hold anyone else? 6 months from now when they have their economics figured out, cool, they can run that test. Generally, giving users a toggle to get reminded when a trial is about to run out will INCREASE conversion rates. That depends on the business, and is part of a pretty standard set of experiments you run post-launch. With your comments you're part HN…

I find it strange that you keep talking past the point people are making. The problem is opt-out, and nobody is holding this company to a different standard. People hate opt-out, and in this case it looks particularly predatory. Your comments come off as entirely unempathetic. Not everything is about bottom line capitalism.

I'm entirely and completely unemphatic. I think these are loser concerns for when a startup first launches.

These guys are moving the needle making improvements in a forward direction, and a big part of this thread is shitting on their launch, hyper-focusing on things they'll be able to change.

Launch HN threads used to be about asking thoughtful questions, having a back and forth where people learn about new spaces, and encouraging people launching their startups.

This whole thread is concern trolling of the worst kind, to eyes.

I'll bow out since clearly the bulk of the thread disagrees.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#140

The ADD (1980) / ADHD (1989) world has always been fairly shady in my opinion. The argument that this disability was invented rather than discovered so that pharmaceutical outfits could push amphetamines on kids is fairly valid, and a lot of the 'adult ADHD' behaviors seem equally explainable as a side effect of amphetamine addiction: > "ADHD drugs, such as Adderall and Ritalin, increase levels of the brain chemical…

As someone with pretty bad ADHD, to the point where I'm basically unemployable without medication (and I know that because I started working before I took any ADHD meds and almost got fired because of it), I don't agree with the characterization that ADHD was invented by drug companies.

One way to think of it is to see attention/motivation control as a spectrum. There are going to be people in the bottom X% of that spectrum, where it starts to negatively affect their lives. I'm thankful we live in a society that recongizes those people and has come up with ways to help them, since I've benefitted tremendously from ADHD treatments.

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