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Re: undefined

#131

Post by m0llusk »

paxys wrote: post #19
animanoir wrote: post #5

Mixed feelings about him honestly. I still can't forget how he betrayed Wozniak.

He screwed over a ton of Apple employees. In Jobs' mind he truly deserved all of the credit and profits for their success because he was the vision guy. Woz and the rest of the team were just doing the boring implementation stuff.

This is a big oversimplification. Some people got screwed therefore he was always screwing everyone over. His career spans many years and quite a few people managed great contributions working with him in that time and got very well compensated and congratulated for that.

Steve Jobs did give a lot of credit to the people who worked under him, just to pick out a couple of notable examples he frequently heaped praise on Avie Tevanian and also the guy who actually made the initial speculative potential merger call to Apple. And in doing so he specifically called out their accomplishments as being savvy and decisive and not just boring implementation stuff.

Re: undefined

#132

Post by exBarrelSpoiler »

enraged_camel wrote: post #113
exBarrelSpoiler wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about stories from actual Apple employees? https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=90_Hours_A_Week_... https://venturebeat.com/2011/08/25/michael-dhuey-apple-engin... https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-apple-employee-on-steve-j... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/01/former-apple-employee-guy-ka...

There's no doubt that Jobs was a very polarizing figure, had many negative character traits and made a lot of mistakes throughout his life. For what it's worth, I read his biography and he came across as repentant and apologetic when confronted, especially near the end when he knew he was going to die. He was a brilliant but flawed person, and he was aware of it. What really rubs me the wrong way is people who refuse…

Who is actually belittling and ridiculing him?

Some Apple defenders seem to be stuck sometime between the mid-90s when Apple was on the verge of collapse, and before the introduction of the iPod. Apple is the most profitable company on Earth. Jobs' place in the history books is assured. This isn't some plucky underdog that's in need of defense anymore. Even the fiercest critic of Jobs will need to recognize his accomplishments, and Apple's success. And even if they don't, so what? Apple is a giant. It has outshone M$ and made their mobile attempts look like a joke. Steve Jobs is a secular saint, an icon. Who cares what a few trolls think?

The most irritating thing about modern Apple fanboyism is that it lets the most profitable company on Earth and its leadership off scot-free. Anyone who criticizes Apple is put in the same company as bullies from decades ago who were on the side of Wintel and mocking a tortured genius. That's very outdated. And it blinds people from valid critiques.

Re: undefined

#133

Post by kevinmchugh »

dilap wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of much I would trade from now for something in the Jobs era. I can do without the rich Corinthian leather, the PowerPC, and the colored plastic. The new keyboards aren't great, but I've dropped this MBP at least 30 times and it still keeps chugging; I'm pretty sure an errant dust particle could have take out my first Intel Macbook.

With the glaring exception of the butterfly keyboard debacle (typing on, what, my fourth right now? and already showing some signs of wonkiness), I agree hardware quality is amazing & best its ever been. The software though... Fit and finish has fallen off a cliff. So many weird glitchy anims and dumb usability issues.

The wireless mouse that can't be used while being charged is the one that gets me. I don't know that Jobs would've approved that

Re: undefined

#134

Post by sokoloff »

soperj wrote: post #112
diego_moita wrote: post #110

What I remember the most about Jobs' death are 2 things: 1) Most of the media did an heavy coverage of his death and legacy. 2) Exactly 1 week after his death one of my personal heroes died too: Dennis MacLister Ritchie. Almost no one paid attention. From computers to micro-controllers, from satellites to abs breaks, Ritchie's legacy goes far deeper and wider than Jobs'. Almost every programmer today touches some of…

Dennis Ritchie's book on C is pretty well required reading for anyone going through a computer science program no?

I suspect there are CS programs that don’t even teach C at this point.

Re: undefined

#135

Post by mattnewton »

soperj wrote: post #112
diego_moita wrote: post #110

What I remember the most about Jobs' death are 2 things: 1) Most of the media did an heavy coverage of his death and legacy. 2) Exactly 1 week after his death one of my personal heroes died too: Dennis MacLister Ritchie. Almost no one paid attention. From computers to micro-controllers, from satellites to abs breaks, Ritchie's legacy goes far deeper and wider than Jobs'. Almost every programmer today touches some of…

Dennis Ritchie's book on C is pretty well required reading for anyone going through a computer science program no?

It was not for me; C wasn’t even taught outside of an elective on operating systems, the main CS course was mostly Java and python with one quarter focused on C++.

Re: undefined

#136

Post by disneygibson »

diego_moita wrote: post #110

What I remember the most about Jobs' death are 2 things: 1) Most of the media did an heavy coverage of his death and legacy. 2) Exactly 1 week after his death one of my personal heroes died too: Dennis MacLister Ritchie. Almost no one paid attention. From computers to micro-controllers, from satellites to abs breaks, Ritchie's legacy goes far deeper and wider than Jobs'. Almost every programmer today touches some of…

Ritchie’s contribution was so fundamental that it was almost impossible to actually recognize his achievements. It’s like honoring the guy that invented the pencil.

Jobs, on the other hand, ran a company that sold products which billions of people knowingly interacted with on a daily basis.

No need to compare the two. One built the foundation, the other built the pretty house on top of it.

Re: undefined

#137

Post by soperj »

sokoloff wrote: post #134
soperj wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dennis Ritchie's book on C is pretty well required reading for anyone going through a computer science program no?

I suspect there are CS programs that don’t even teach C at this point.

That seems really weird to me. We even did a machine language course even though we will never do any machine language programming. It's good to understand what the hell is going on. C is amazing in explaining how memory management works, since you have to do it all yourself.

Re: undefined

#138

Post by soperj »

mattnewton wrote: post #135
soperj wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dennis Ritchie's book on C is pretty well required reading for anyone going through a computer science program no?

It was not for me; C wasn’t even taught outside of an elective on operating systems, the main CS course was mostly Java and python with one quarter focused on C++.

That's really sad. I mean, we weren't actually taught any programming language, but we had courses that required C, so the Ritchie & Kernighan book was part of the deal.

Re: undefined

#139

Post by [deleted] »

smoldesu wrote: post #27
geoffpado wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be getting downvoted, so to help give some context, these are supposedly Jobs’s last words: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/oct/31/steve-job...

Shortly after his... other last words to his family. https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/steve-jobs-told-his-daughter-s...

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#140

Post by tomjen3 »

killion wrote: post #23

I think that Apple suffers from not having that person at the top with taste who was willing to say “this is shit”. The overall software quality has dropped markedly at Apple and the hardware more uneven since he left. There were misses under Steve like the Cube where there wasn’t a market. But the product was great. Now there is a market but the product is middling like the Watch. Yes the watch was started when he w…

If Jobs had been there, I can't help but believe there wouldn't have been a notch on the iPhone and the watch would have a longer lasting battery. My Samsung watch can go 2 days in between charges, so it should be possible.
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