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Introducing Age Verification

blog.roblox.com

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Re: Introducing Age Verification

#131

Post by nobody9999 »

smitop wrote: post #128
nobody9999 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Here's a wild idea... How about not collecting the personal information of children? Here's an even wilder one: How about not collecting personal information? Full stop.

COPPA has a very broad definition of personal information (see https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/part-312 ). "Online contact information" counts as personal information, and that includes email addresses, IRC nicks, IM usernames, etc. Some other things that count as personal information under COPPA are IP addresses, the user's voice, and full names. Virtually all online services with user accounts collect persona…

>Virtually all online services with user accounts collect personal information as defined by COPPA.

And that makes it right to do so? I think not.

Sure, it's necessary to store stuff like login credentials, if a login is required to access the site.

As such, it shouldn't matter how old (or young) you are, unless there's a specific need to store such information (and there rarely is) to support the use of whatever services are provided by a website, it's invasive and untrustworthy to do so.

And I respond accordingly.

Feel free to disagree, but that's not a discussion which will end in me changing my position.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#132

Post by unclebucknasty »

Spivak wrote: post #115
unclebucknasty wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst are those that let you get invested and only then spring these requirements on you. NBA Top Shot comes to mind. They allow you to buy with no problem. But, to sell on their platform you have to go through what is essentially a KYC check. Your investment is sunk otherwise.

I think people on HN underestimate how easy it is to accidentally build a money laundering system —- which NBA Top Shot did and now has to correct with KYC checks.

>I think people on HN underestimate how easy it is to accidentally build a money laundering system, which NBA Top Shot did and now has to correct with KYC checks

Oh, I understand the "why", but seems to me NBA Top Shot is the one that underestimated how easy it is to build a money laundering system.

And, suddenly requiring KYC checks of all users--irrespective of amounts involved and without an option for refunds--isn't the most customer-friendly way to "correct" their oversight.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#133

Post by emilfihlman »

tialaramex wrote: post #92
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

>But, the UK government added a site so you can prove you're you, and get codes, which for a limited period show someone that yup, this person is legal to drive and so on.

Could you link us the site?

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#134

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

drsnow wrote: post #126
gruez wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you have KYC requirements, I'll meet you in person or find a different vendor. that's literally not an option when it comes to crypto exchanges.

localbitcoins exists

Funnily enough, localbitcoins has required KYC for some time, and even prohibited face-to-face cash trades.

However there are alternatives such a localmonero and localcryptos so you are correct in concept.

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#135

Post by cphoover »

_jal wrote: post #56
kosei wrote: post #2

Though I applaud the effort to get age right and protect players, I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable having me or my child scan our photo ID and selfie to upload it as part of a login flow to an application.

Yeah, I don't do this. If your service demands my ID, I'll close my account. If you have KYC requirements, I'll meet you in person or find a different vendor.

what if ID could be validated with homomorphic encryption though? and you never had to send your actual ID in an unencrypted form to the service?

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#137

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

derefr wrote: post #121
tialaramex wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much prefer my government to take on responsibility for providing this sort of service as they do e.g. driver qualification. Once upon a time the usual thing to get OK'd to rent a van (e.g. for students who are moving house) is you rock up to the rental place with the legal documents showing you're entitled to drive. You're relying on the fact that the person renting you a van doesn't much care and isn't keep…

In Canada we have https://verified.me/government-sign-in-by-verified-me/ , which is ultimately “the government taking on responsibility for providing this sort of service” — but the government then turning around and delegating that responsibility to major banks (the Verified.Me service acting as the SSO intermediary, is a joint venture of seven major Canadian banks, and then supports other non-shareholding financial…

Does this basically force people to have a Canadian bank account to survive?

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#138

Post by gruez »

drsnow wrote: post #126
gruez wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you have KYC requirements, I'll meet you in person or find a different vendor. that's literally not an option when it comes to crypto exchanges.

localbitcoins exists

That's only really comparable if you're exchanging a few hundred dollars worth of crypto. What if you need to exchange several thousand? The spreads are going to be terrible, as would be counter-party risk. Timing would also be an issue, which is important if you're trying to trade (as opposed to HODLing).

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#139

Post by smartbit »

sprite wrote: post #84

Are there any good identify verification saas?

The Dutch can use I Reveal My Attributes https://irma.app based on Idemix that allows revealing “Age above 13” https://privacybydesign.foundation/irma-explanation/. Source at https://github.com/privacybydesign

Driving force Bart Jacobs won the 2021 Stevin Prize €2.5M for his work on privacy & security https://www.ru.nl/english/research/prizes-achievements/stevi...

Re: Introducing Age Verification

#140

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

gruez wrote: post #138
drsnow wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

localbitcoins exists

That's only really comparable if you're exchanging a few hundred dollars worth of crypto. What if you need to exchange several thousand? The spreads are going to be terrible, as would be counter-party risk. Timing would also be an issue, which is important if you're trying to trade (as opposed to HODLing).

The fees and inconvenience are only an issue for regular traders that are repeatedly buying and selling. For 6+ figure amounts it is even better to use 'over the counter' peer-to-peer services. Companies that are buying hundreds of millions worth are not using exchanges. I found it easy to do 5 figure trades even in 2014. There are significant fees and inconveniences when moving fiat to centralised exchanges so it evens out.
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