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The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

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Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#131

Post by monocasa »

satronaut wrote: post #127
monocasa wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can technically make money with Herbalife too. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a greater proportion of people made money on Herbalife versus a YouTube channel.

maybe, but can you say the same on blogging or online e-commerce. Or if somebody supplements their income doing uber/lyft or doordash/instacart?

I am saying the same thing about blogging and online commerce explicitly.

And the supplementing your income with Uber, etc. thing is slightly different in that you get compensated for each hour you put in starting with your first hour. The big issue I have is with schemes that take time and capital investments where you probably won't make a dime.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#132

Post by cscurmudgeon »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #26
aantix wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't wealth taxes work? Which countries repealed?

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/01/699261950/why-a-wealth-tax-di... > ROSALSKY: In 1990, there were 12 countries in Europe that had a wealth tax. Today there are only three. Perret says they didn't work for a lot of reasons. Among other things, it costs a lot to enforce. It pushed rich people out of the country, and the wealth taxes didn't raise a lot of revenue. But > ROSALSKY: But Warren says that her proposal, which h…

Of course any reasonable opposition gets downvoted and responses get ignored.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#133

Post by neosenate »

bin_bash wrote: post #93
basseq wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, if you were paid in gold, that's still income and you would still be taxed on the fair market value of that gold. It's income that's taxed, not USD. Same as stock grants: if you're paid in stock, you pay income taxes when that stock is granted, at the market value of that stock. You aren't taxed on the FMV increase of that stock until you sell it (at which point you're taxed on capital gains).

yes but billionaires never sell. They take out loans using their assets as collateral. That way they don't have to report income.

How are the loans paid back? I could never figure this one out. If they have to sell assets to pay for the loan, don’t they then get taxed at point of sale?

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#134

Post by bin_bash »

neosenate wrote: post #133
bin_bash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes but billionaires never sell. They take out loans using their assets as collateral. That way they don't have to report income.

How are the loans paid back? I could never figure this one out. If they have to sell assets to pay for the loan, don’t they then get taxed at point of sale?

They either get terms where they have to make minimal payments if any, and refinance before the due date. Or they take out more loans to make the payments. Eventually they just die and the estate pays it off tax-free.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#135

Post by deepsun »

iammisc wrote: post #8
csallen wrote: post #3

> In 2018, Warren Buffett had a net worth of $84 billion. The effective tax rate on his mountain of wealth? 0.006%—orders of magnitude lower than the tax rates paid by most middle-class families. What tax rate do middle-class families pay on their net worth? 0% I believe, since we don't have wealth taxes?

Yeah, this is written in extremely manipulative language. What was warren buffett's income in 2018? We have income tax, not wealth tax. Plus, a lot of that wealth is likely 'in' his company, which is really just fake money. I mean, I know accountants look at it and there is some overlap for taxes when doing things like options and share grants and FMV, but really, a company is worth zero until you sell it, like most…

We do have one kind of wealth taxes -- property tax.

They have many problems as well, but that's a wealth tax.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#136

Post by iammisc »

belltaco wrote: post #41
iammisc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is written in extremely manipulative language. What was warren buffett's income in 2018? We have income tax, not wealth tax. Plus, a lot of that wealth is likely 'in' his company, which is really just fake money. I mean, I know accountants look at it and there is some overlap for taxes when doing things like options and share grants and FMV, but really, a company is worth zero until you sell it, like most…

>Plus, a lot of that wealth is likely 'in' his company, which is really just fake money. Then maybe we should give the poor some of this "fake money" since it's fake and doesn't matter anyway. >EDIT: Repeat after me: net worth increases are not income. Net worth increases are not income. I mean, I "made" $250k last year in home appreciation, but that's just fake money. If they taxed me on it, it would come out of my…

We do. Most Americans own homes which means they're sitting on hundreds of thousands in fake money

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#137

Post by iammisc »

fairity wrote: post #45
iammisc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is written in extremely manipulative language. What was warren buffett's income in 2018? We have income tax, not wealth tax. Plus, a lot of that wealth is likely 'in' his company, which is really just fake money. I mean, I know accountants look at it and there is some overlap for taxes when doing things like options and share grants and FMV, but really, a company is worth zero until you sell it, like most…

> In real terms, both the stock market and real estate have been stagnant for decades What do you mean by this? Inflation over the past couple decades has come in around 2-3%. The stock market has appreciated by much more.

Real inflation as measured before the cpi methodology changes in the 90s is likely in the 7-15% range. The government manipulates the basket of goods to 'achieve' low rates.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

In this view, there has been no asset appreciation. It's a myth to quell the masses achieved by manipulating inflation rates.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#138

Post by sroussey »

iammisc wrote: post #8
csallen wrote: post #3

> In 2018, Warren Buffett had a net worth of $84 billion. The effective tax rate on his mountain of wealth? 0.006%—orders of magnitude lower than the tax rates paid by most middle-class families. What tax rate do middle-class families pay on their net worth? 0% I believe, since we don't have wealth taxes?

Yeah, this is written in extremely manipulative language. What was warren buffett's income in 2018? We have income tax, not wealth tax. Plus, a lot of that wealth is likely 'in' his company, which is really just fake money. I mean, I know accountants look at it and there is some overlap for taxes when doing things like options and share grants and FMV, but really, a company is worth zero until you sell it, like most…

Your home has a wealth tax, also known as property tax. These increase as the home appreciates.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#139

Post by useful »

bradlys wrote: post #115
useful wrote: post #89

In theory, a 3% wealth tax makes the life of a billionaire difficult. You have like a 60% tax rate for fed/state/local. You make maybe 8% by being safe in your investments. If you pay taxes on your income, get that 8% reduced to 6% by 2% inflation and then your left with a 3.6% YoY gain (6% * 60%) before a 3% wealth tax wipes you out down to 0.6%. But you still don't have to pay taxes on your gains with this bill. Yo…

Why would it be 60% for stocks? It’s not regular income. It’s capital gains. You’re looking at much lower rates for ltcg. These rules also only apply to people with $50M+ and only to amounts over that $50M. I don’t think almost anyone should have that level of wealth in the world - it’s clearly created at the cost of others.

I figure if you are actively managing your account, then most of it is short term.
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