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Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

npr.org

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Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#131

Post by giantg2 »

whymauri wrote: post #6
giantg2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's not forget that people with natural antibodies are being fired from their private sector jobs too. We seem to be focused on measuring output rather than outcomes. Other countries are giving recovered people the same status as the vaccinated since they have the antibodies. But I guess that makes too much sense...

Natural antibodies + vaccination is basically a win-win for everyone, especially noting that the US is wasting vaccines rather than using them. You don't lose anything by getting the vaccine and there's a strong upside in resistance (around 10x more resistant than people who are simply vaccinated). Like, between a 100-200$ blood test to prove natural immunity* vs. a free vaccine, it should make sense to get the vacci…

"Like, between a 100-200$ blood test to prove natural immunity* vs. a free vaccine, it should make sense to get the vaccine."

The antibody test is about $45 from places like Labcorp. The vaccine is $40 per dose (so $80 total for most), with the government picking up the tab.

Yes, vaccination plus infection provides more antibodies. I'm not sure that it is correct to quantify that as "10x more resistance" as we would need to know where the threshold for resistance lies and all the factors involved (they don't know the min effective level of antibodies, and they are seeing protection in individuals before the antibodies are being produced).

"You don't lose anything by getting the vaccine..."

There are some people with valid concerns about the possiblity of autoimmune antibodies, which in theory, could be substantially higher if having already been infected. Sadly, I haven't been able to find any real research into this one way or the other.

"... they should be able to prove they have that immunity in the first place, ..."

Yes, other governments such as Isreal are issuing green passes for those confirmed to have recovered. I don't believe they are doing antibody testing, but we aren't testing vaccine recipients for antibodies either.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#132

Post by twstdsistrs84 »

betterunix2 wrote: post #121
AndrewBissell wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vaccines only work if a large majority of people are vaccinated and people who refuse to receive the shot are putting everyone else in danger. I assume by "work" you mean herd immunity (I can't make sense of the statement otherwise), but even 99% vaccinated regions are seeing transmission because the Covid vaccines are not sterilizing and do little or nothing to reduce transmission. Herd immunity arguments don't ap…

Citation needed, because that contradicts the CDC's guidance: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br... "people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others " emphasis mine

The CDC is a political body which doesn't practice science. They spew propaganda. Safe to ignore any citations that start with cdc.gov.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#133

Post by angelzen »

betterunix2 wrote: post #126
angelzen wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the vaccinated population that breeds vaccine-resistant variants. Just like it's the antibiotic half-course that breeds antibiotic resistant bacteria. As the vaccines are failing harder and harder, convenient to blame those that weighted long term risk over short term protection.

No, the unvaccinated population, where the virus keeps being replicated, breeds variants of all kinds; the vaccinated population applies selection pressure that favors vaccine resistance. If the entire population is vaccinated variants would not emerge at all because the virus would not spread from person to person (and would eventually disappear from the population).

Sadly, the ZeroCovid ship has sailed. Vaccines do not prevent infection or transmission (1). All vaccines appear to do is to (hopefully) dull the severity of the infection once you've got it. Plus now we have animal reservoirs, and no way to vaccinate those.

Edit: (1) Obviously we should talk about the degree of infection and transmission reduced by vaccines, and not in black/white terms. I haven't seen conclusive data, just the Israel Delta charts that are not particularly encouraging.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#134

Post by betterunix2 »

twstdsistrs84 wrote: post #123
tzs wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, but the covid vaccines do not prevent infection or transmission -- which really takes the wind out of the "do it for the good of the community" sail. They do appear to reduce the length of infection which would reduce transmission.

Is that the latest talking point now? Sounds like more politicized "science" coming from our corrupt institutions. In any case, even if the above is true, I don't think it demonstrates sufficient efficacy of the vaccine to introduce mandates. Especially mandates which completely ignore natural immunity.

Ah yes, science, always being updated with new information. So unreliable! Let's stick with ranting of random people on the Internet, who have definitely not changed their story from "there is no virus" to "Bill Gates put microchips in the vaccine" to "the vaccine makes people magnetic" to "the vaccine turns people into lizards..."

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#135

Post by sk2020 »

betterunix2 wrote: post #107
sk2020 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your vaccine does not work unless someone or everyone else has one? Has this been observed with previous vaccine products?

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_infection#By_dise... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity Do not think in terms of "your vaccine," because vaccines are about preventing the spread of a disease within a population.

That’s interesting. Every other vaccine, like Hep A, Hep B, MMR, TDAP, and flu I’ve taken was to protect myself, or so I thought. But if someone with an account on Wikipedia wrote something, well, I guess that would change everything. I guess we’re lucky to have people who care so deeply and personally about hospital bed utilization rates that they will inflict as much punishment as necessary to meet those goals.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#136

Post by angelzen »

tzs wrote: post #108
threatofrain wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punching yourself in the face, or nanny state discussions, is more akin to something like a seat belt law. We have seat belt laws to stop the individual from hurting themselves, not because we're afraid they're going to launch out as a projectile and hurt others. But vaccination is a community thing more than an individual thing. If it were just about hurting yourself, then I'd agree that the discussion should be fra…

In a society in which if you do something stupid that causes massive but not immediately fatal injuries to yourself you will be taken to an emergency room and likely given expensive treatment even if you do not have adequate insurance or enough money of your own to pay for that treatment, thereby passing the cost on to the rest of us in terms of either higher medical costs or higher taxes, it is a lot harder for it t…

See e.g. obesity crisis. Or medicalized end-of-life costs. Sadly, we pay for expensive stuff people do to their health all the time.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#137

Post by kodah »

whymauri wrote: post #120
kodah wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the usefulness of including race data in polls like this? I'm French and I have little if nothing in common with other "white" people.

Developing targeted campaigns to encourage vaccination. There is hesitancy in the US black population, especially in the South, to trust health government-based health institutions. There's also less access to healthcare resources. See: Tuskegee Syphilis Study as a case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study For Latinos, there's a language gap that needs to be overcome for large projects like this (oth…

I wasn't asking about minority groups, I was asking why the white population is being called out specifically when I have nothing to do with other white people. It feels incredibly dehumanizing at times.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#138

Post by swayvil »

A new vaccine. Rushed to market. Pushed upon us before it was even approved. Then rushed to approval.

That's strange.

I need to get this vaccine, not to protect myself, but to protect you.

That's strange.

That's 2 strange things in a row.

When you see 2 strange things in a row like that, it smells fishy.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#140

Post by tzs »

nostromo wrote: post #9

> but vaccine hesitancy — particularly among white Republicans This sort of quip really makes me distrust NPR. White people are more vaccinated than blacks or Latinos, but the journalist couldn't help but try to throw in a dunk on their favorite bogeyman. https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-p...

Black people are 13% of the US population. If every adult black person in the US were unvaccinated it would still be less than the number of white Republicans who have not been vaccinated.
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