Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado • Hacker News Board

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#131

Post by Osiris » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #118

Jtsummers wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're avoiding the other elements of the law. It institutes a few other things besides just salary transparency. Companies also have to maintain a record of salaries/wages in order to prove they didn't discriminate based on sex and they have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from).

> have to announce advancement opportunities to existing employees (something many companies shy away from). Why? Isn't hiring from within a win for employer and employee? I don't speak HR. Training up on culture and product is a huge deal sometimes.

I'm on Colorado and all our internal promotions are opened on the internal job board (greenhouse) even if we already have a candidate in mind.

1. The candidate has an opportunity to show how interested and qualified they are (or if the person we had in mind doesn't want the job)

2. Other people we didn't think would be interested have the same opportunity to show they do.

3. No one ends up feeling slighted for having been passed over.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#132

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #85

jefftk wrote: post #55

Context: Colorado’s Equal Pay Act requires jobs ads to list a salary range [1], which companies generally don't want to do. Excluding CO residents is one way companies are avoiding the law. [1] https://www.colorado.edu/hr/colorados-equal-pay-equal-work-a...

I'm curious if the other workaround will just be to have Junior Software Engineer I ($60K-$65K), JSE II ($65-70), etc. and post them all via the power of automation and just down qualify candidates from JSE VIII to JSE II because of the lack of 20 years experience in Rust. They still get to low-ball people. I really wish software had some more abstract certifications like other professions do, including things like j…

[deleted]

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#133

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

lostcolony wrote: post #88

lotsofpulp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advertised minimum pay is what matters, as employers will have to increase the minimum pay to attract more and/or quality job applicants.

Only if the advertised minimum has to be the actual minimum someone at the company is making, and not a theoretical minimum that the salary band encompasses. Because if it's a theoretical minimum, I don't care about it; I want to know what the maximum is. If it's an actual minimum, I also don't care about it, but the person earning that might.

If a company offers $1 as their minimum, then applications will know they are a joke. They will have to keep moving this minimum up and up to be taken more seriously.

If a company offers $50k as a minimum for a role that most people earn $200k for, then they probably will not get many good people responding to it since who would want to work for a company that could lowball you by $150k? And another company can see that and up their minimum to take advantage.

It just helps weed the garbage employers out quickly. Perhaps it will not be as useful in a situation where employers have all the negotiating power where they can list $1, but at least now there is some time saved.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#134

Post by drstewart » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

bmmayer1 wrote: post #20

This is a predictable consequence of a shortsighted legal requirement. How many people will be deprived of work opportunities because of this law? How many jobs will Colorado lose over the next decade or more until the legislature realizes what they've done?

Price transparency is a basic requirement of efficient markets.

Exactly. We should also require by law that candidates provide the range of salaries they're willing to accept on their resumes before submitting any applications. For efficiency's sake, of course.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#135

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #18

Do the people who lobbied for this law think this is a positive outcome for workers in Colorado or not?

It's early days to be forming a judgement about that, I suspect.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#136

Post by waterside81 » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #35

waterside81 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah these labor related laws really need to be administered federally to be effective.

The challenge with that is if you can't get the Department of Labor to institute this (under a favorable administration), Congress is mostly deadlocked until the makeup up representatives turns over (through voter turnover). Alternatively, you could target enough states to pass this law that it would be useless to avoid listing your jobs in those states, as you'd be excluding excessive candidates from your candidate…

You're right. It's kind of like marijuana legalization. The feds refused to but it's almost become defacto law of the land when enough states do it themselves.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#137

Post by colinmhayes » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #29

The Colorado law to me strikes me as a pretty huge government overreach. I fully believe in minimum wage laws, and that feels like an appropriate regulation to me, but this just feels like it's almost attacking these companies, interfering with their hiring processes, and I fully see why companies would rather not bother hiring in what boils down to 1 mid-sized metro area than deal with the consequences.

Increasing transparency makes markets much more efficient.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#138

Post by theandrewbailey » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #45

I’d love to see a law that goes a step further and also mandates that everyone’s salary be public knowledge to everyone else within the same company. If this generates resentment, it means the company is poorly managed. The company would therefore either be compelled to fix their pay discrepancies (thereby allaying the resentment) or risk losing resentful employees to other companies. It would also be great if this c…

This might backfire on employees that ask for a raise, but won't get it because the employer feels like they'd have to give everyone else raises.

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#139

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #29

The Colorado law to me strikes me as a pretty huge government overreach. I fully believe in minimum wage laws, and that feels like an appropriate regulation to me, but this just feels like it's almost attacking these companies, interfering with their hiring processes, and I fully see why companies would rather not bother hiring in what boils down to 1 mid-sized metro area than deal with the consequences.

Do you also feel that it is "overreach" for food to come with nutritional/calorie information?

Re: Companies that are avoiding hiring in Colorado

#140

Post by colinmhayes » Tue, Sep 07, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

drstewart wrote: post #134

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price transparency is a basic requirement of efficient markets.

Exactly. We should also require by law that candidates provide the range of salaries they're willing to accept on their resumes before submitting any applications. For efficiency's sake, of course.

I don't think that's a bad idea.