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Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

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Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#131

Post by soco »

guerrilla wrote: post #74
soco wrote: post #52

In similar news the well-known direct democracy of Switzerland just voted a new rule giving police similar surveillance powers without judicial oversight. So it's obviously the people wishing to be better surveilled and we're the outliers here.

That's terrible news. I wonder how this will interact with ProtonMail (which I just switched to.) On the other hand, I don't think you can draw your conclusion from those two examples. Also, other than the cantons of Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus, Switzerland isn't really a direct democracy, semi-direct at best. You'll notice they have representatives in a federal structure, despite having mechanisms for some dire…

That might be a different discussion but the mentioned police surveillance law was voted in a national referendum.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#132

Post by Geee »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #32
koolba wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t a brain drain lead to even dumber laws?

Democracy leads to dumb laws. It's a tyranny of the bottom 51%ile. I say this a little tongue in cheek, but it's a real problem I've yet to understand -- how can an outlier intelligent person thrive in a system that caters to the masses? The masses have an incentive to drain any marginal value out of the intelligent, and have the political power to do so. Edit: @majormajor sorry HN wont let me reply. The reason would…

This is true, and that's why there's constitution. Constitution makes sure that government power is limited to issues that don't change power balance from people to government or from minority to majority groups. It makes sure that no matter who runs the country, they can't ruin it.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#133

Post by elric »

crowbahr wrote: post #51
elric wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the police have a warrant to watch you, then, no. But that is as it should be. Is it? Any government could make $thing illegal tomorrow. Anyone associated with $thing could then be watched and imprisoned. With judicial oversight. Some possible values from $thing taken from history: being gay, (not) being christian, being a pacifist, being poor/homeless The above have all been persecuted in the past. Sometimes in…

Yes because societies are built on rules and enforcement of the societal contract has always come, in some measure, by the government's ability to enforce the basically decent behavior that the majority wants. The fact that the majority has often historically been in the wrong doesn't mean that we throw the baby out with the bathwater and get rid of enforcement of the laws: Anarchy is not preferable to a well ordered…

Hmm, I don't think I'm advocating for anarchy. I find it hard to put this into words in a coherent way; but I think it's preferable that the state's capabilities are somewhat matched by the populace's. Not just the legalities of checks & balances. The people need to be able to watch the state if the state is watching them.

This capability is currently very much lacking. We (by which I broadly mean western countries in general) are seeing less and less government transparency. Trade deals are brokered in secret, surveillance bills are rushed through parliaments, terrorism and child abuse are being used as blanket excuses for pretty much everything. Journalists get less and less access. In some countries (Italy comes to mind) there are very strong ties between the government and the media.

And sure, we have some form of representative democracy, but it seems like governments in many cases don't represent their people, but rather their own interests. The people are often unaware of what their governments get up to (various atrocities in the Middle East come to mind). By the time the next election comes up, the damage is already done, with zero accountability.

Long story short: it's good for governments to be able to enforce laws that benefit (all? most?) people, but the people need to be able to stick it to the government if need be. And with all this government surveillance, that's become virtually impossible.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#134

Post by catsncomputers »

eplanit wrote: post #68

There and New Zealand both. The responses (extreme lockdown) of both countries to Covid has been nothing short of insane.

Since both countries have had issues with vaccine supply, both have extremely low vaccination rates. The lockdowns are an intermediary measure to prevent loss of life until vaccination rates are high enough to warrant leaving it.

Furthermore, the response has enabled New Zealanders to lead an almost completely normal life aside from the two lockdowns - going to work without even thinking about the necessity of masks or social distancing. Attending concerts without a fear of contracting Covid-19. Stadiums full of people when the US and other countries have been in limbo for 2 years now. Your idea of `insane` is quite bizarre to me.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#136

Post by mikaeluman »

I make the same observation as other people have made. These types of laws are being passed with increasing intensity and scope in most western countries.

They seem to follow the same idea. Purportedly they are being passed to stop crime or at least aid the investigation of suspected criminals.

The other set of laws are purportedly meant to stop the spread of infectious disease.

But the laws are clearly not well balanced in terms of privacy rights and personal freedom.

There is also this ominous synchronization between government and trans-national bodies such as the WHO with major technology firms; having the latter act as uncritical propaganda arms of the former - no matter the evidence or reasons for doubt.

Rather than discussion and reasoning, there is this flow of labels thrown around at dissenters, regardless of who they are and what they say.

If they critique transwomen competing with women they are called transphobic and accused of hate speech.

If they prefer not to take a vaccine shot and/or critique lockdowns and restrictions; they are called anti-vaxxers and accused of spreading misinformation.

All of this points in the direction of tyranny and totalitarianism. All we can do is vote with our feet.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#137

Post by jccc »

yakz wrote: post #34

I guess my days as a paying customer of FastMail are coming to an end. I don’t expect to ever become a legitimate target of Australian law enforcement, but there is always abuse.

Each of the Five Eyes benefits, so one doesn't need to be the target of just Australian law enforcement.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#138

Post by systemvoltage »

pfarrell wrote: post #127
systemvoltage wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, you're not allowed to go beyond 5km radius of your house. Can someone in Australia confirm the details of the lockdown? Virus is here to stay for many years, if not decades. We're never going to eliminate it. It is time we push back on draconian measures in the name of covid. Unrelated but I can't even go to bathroom in SF city because every restaurant, convenience store, gas station, etc. have an excuse…

Pre-covid, there was almost nowhere to go to the bathroom in downtown SF either.

I'd be down to fight for Right to Pee: https://newrepublic.com/article/162266/doordash-uber-eats-de...

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#140

Post by commotionfever »

afandian wrote: post #95
yakz wrote: post #34

I guess my days as a paying customer of FastMail are coming to an end. I don’t expect to ever become a legitimate target of Australian law enforcement, but there is always abuse.

Me too, and I just submitted a support request seeking clarification. I'll update with any reply I get.

thanks! an update would be much appreciated when you get it
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