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Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#131

Post by least »

totetsu wrote: post #110
lifty wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a false sense of security, it’s a clear delimitation between theirs and mine; Debian package maintainers can also slip a scanner on your machine but that is a big line to cross on purpose and without notifying the user.

But with a debian package you can choose not to accept the upgrade and see any funny business in the release source code..

That is technically true but in a real very practical sense everyone here using OSS absolutely is trusting a third party because they are not auditing every bit of code they run. For less technical people there is effectively zero difference between open and closed software.

It’s really disingenuous to suggest that open source isn’t dependent on trust, you just change who you are trusting. Even if the case is someone else is auditing that code, you’re trusting that person instead of the repository owners.

I’ll concede that at least that possibility to audit exists but personally I do have to trust to a certain extent that third parties aren’t trying to fuck me over.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#132

Post by whoisjuan »

This CSAM Prevention initiative by Apple is a 180 degress change of their general message around privacy. Imagine investing hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-privacy programs, privacy features, privacy marketing, etc... just to pull this reverse card.

Of course this is going to spark concern within their own ranks. It's like working for a food company that claims to use organic, non-processed, fair-trade ingredients and in just a day deciding that you're going to switch to industrial farming sourcing and ultra-processed ingredients.

It's a complete change of narrative and there's no easy way to explain it and still defend Apple's Privacy narrative, wihout doing extreme mental gymnastics.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#133

Post by blisterpeanuts »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #72
Hackbraten wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me neither. I used to trust them to do the right thing for their customers but not anymore.

I don't understand what they are thinking. This project is probably going to cost millions, they won't catch any pedophiles, they will only scare them so they don't use Apple devices. Nobody asked them to do it. This is none of their business. It can only creates new vulnerabilities, privacy issues and general annoyance.

Unfortunately, what with all the negative publicity this is causing, Apple now has a huge incentive to catch somebody, anybody, just to justify the project. The thing about pedophiles is, all it really takes is an accusation; the public will presume guilt, the target's job and home and life are taken away, and Apple + NCMEC can say, "See? It works." Even if the target is later exonerated, the damage is done. The teams that vet the candidate images might even have quotas to fill. "How many did you catch last month?" Your innocent baby bath pictures might catch you up in a net that destroys your life, just so some low wage clown can claim they made quota.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#134

Post by sethammons »

azinman2 wrote: post #116
nullc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't being coaxed or coerced. If they were forced-- or even incentivized-- by the government to perform these searches than they'd be subject to the fourth amendment protecting against warrantless searches. Apple is engaging in this activity of their own free will for sake of their own commercial gain and are not being incentivized or coerced by the government in any way. As such, the warrantless search of the…

> Apple is engaging in this activity of their own free will for sake of their own commercial gain What's the commercial gain?

More access to markets subject to totalitarian regimes

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#135

Post by blisterpeanuts »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #82
himaraya wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just think of it as a form of lobbying.

What's the end-game here? I don't follow.

It might make the Chinese government look more kindly on Apple.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#136

Post by userbinator »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #129

So it boils down to companies make most of the OSs for devices. Governments can compel companies to do stuff. The only option for the truly privacy conscious is to not use a company provided OS. The future is in buying a phone and flashing the ROM you want. Until even owning a non-standard phone becomes illegal.

Until even owning a non-standard phone becomes illegal.

A similar scenario was found in Stallman's disturbingly-prescient story 24 years ago:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#137

Post by trhway »

a bit of stretched speculation - may be Apple is just ahead of the curve getting ready (and thus naturally bringing it closer - dialectics though) for a future where "common carrier" protections would get eroded even more. We already have FOSTA laws against websites and it isn't a big stretch to imagine that the Apple style scanning would become a "reasonable care/etc." under FOSTA style laws.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#138

Post by grishka »

slg wrote: post #112
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The practical difference is that with on-device scanning, the system is just a few bit flips away from scanning every photo on your device, instead of just the ones that are about to be uploaded. With server-side scanning, the separation is clear—what's on Apple's server can be scanned, and what's only on your phone cannot. This all plays so perfectly into my long-time fears about the locked down nature of the iPhone…

There is also an argument that the cloud scanning is a few bit flips away from allowing random Apple employees from looking through all my photos while on device scanning means they have to be specifically looking for certain content. On device scanning is probably preferred if one's fear is someone stealing their nudes, which is one of the more common fears about photo privacy and one that Apple has already shown is…

When you choose to use a cloud (aka someone else's computer), you trust that someone else, because you're no longer in control of what happens to your data once it leaves your device. That's a sane expectation, anyway. But you don't expect your own device to behave against your interests.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#139

Post by ksec »

jonplackett wrote: post #5

In their attempt to make this extra private by scanning 'on device', I think they've managed to make it feel worse. If they scan my iCloud photos in iCloud, well lots of companies scan stuff when you upload it. It's on their servers, they're responsible for it. They don't want to be hosting CSAM. It feels much worse them turning your own, trusty iPhone against you. I know that isn't how you should look at it, but tha…

I think what you describe and what is shown by Apple is "the" concrete piece of evidence, and what I have suspected for long that there is no longer any product person running the company. It used to be Steve Jobs.

You have people arguing over the technical definition of privacy, or on devices, off devices terminology. It doesn't matter. The user doesn't understand any of it. And they just feel exactly what you wrote. An intrusion of their private space by a company that has been telling you how much they value your privacy for a better part of decade.

These sort of technical explanation used to be a Tech Companies / Google / Microsoft things. Absolutely make sense to nerds, but nothing much to a layman. Now Apple are doing the same. If you watch their Keynotes, you should notice the increase usage of technical jargons or numbers for performance over the past 5 years. Something that Steve Jobs's keynote used to keep it to minimal.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#140

Post by [deleted] »

endisneigh wrote: post #46
someperson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the suggestion that it's the government of China pushing for the feature itself, but the fact the feature now exists and WILL be used by authoritarian regimes to scan for political content is clearly understood by Apple employees. From the article: > Apple employees have flooded an Apple internal Slack channel with more than 800 messages on the plan announced a week ago, workers who asked not to be…

your quote contradicts your statement. it seems like the employees are worried that it could be exploited, not that it necessarily will be.

[deleted]
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