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TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#131
Lots of positivity in this thread, and I don't think that's entirely a bad thing, but I think TikTok is the worst of the social media platforms in terms of addictiveness, based on my peers.

As a recent grad, so many of my friends are heavily invested in TikTok and have been since quarantine began, some of them for a bit before. The amount of time they spend there is absurd. Consuming 30 second content for three hours can't be good for concentration, right? It helps add to the 'always online' mindset that has grown more popular with social media and smart phones.

Instead of going for a walk, some of my friends would opt to lie in bed and watch TikToks, creating empty, basically non-existent connections with people across the world. Connections with people across the world are awesome, and one of the best things about the internet, but TikTok connections are basically UDP.

Most TikTok content I've been shown is shallow, the same way so much social media content is shallow. My having to get to the point immediately, we leave out key details and we want to catch your attention before you scroll away. Of course there is the other end of the spectrum with YouTube where a 2 minute tutorial takes 15 minutes.

I try not to use much social media, and honestly, I probably should limit my time on HN more as well. Doom scrolling is a real thing, and TikTok is not immune to that. I've seen plenty of dread inducing content that comes from TikTok as well.

TikTok keeps you logged on, as it's supposed it. I just don't think that's a good thing. If you can control and limit your usage to something that's healthy for you, then I don't think there's a problem. For me though, that healthy limit is 0, because I know myself and I have little self control with social media in the past.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of manipulative amplification/suppression, specifically? Maybe a skinner box outrage machine that turns us into hostile tribes sniping over cultural crap while completely unable to govern ourselves as they surpass us?

> What sort of manipulative amplification/suppression, specifically? Maybe a skinner box outrage machine that turns us into hostile tribes sniping over cultural crap while completely unable to govern ourselves as they surpass us? Amplifying pre-existing fault lines to encourage general weakness is certainly one that's been well explored. Another might be amplifying political or ideological that serve the foreign powe…

Sorry I was describing our current social networks. Impossible to gauge how thick to lay it on in text.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, from a social media perspective, TikTok feels like the least toxic environment. Nobody is showing off their new homes, cars, kids, spending. It feels like a significantly reduced pressure to produce. Many of my friends are just consumers of content. Most of the content I'm seeing are memes and are funny. Even the advertising is more light hearted.

I wonder if this is because TikTok targets a younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene.

>TikTok targets a younger demographic that is digital native and practices better internet hygiene.

Or maybe they're a younger demographic that doesn't have "new homes, cars, kids, spending"?

Also, the bit about "practices better internet hygiene" because they're "digital native" is kind of funny. Prior to the mid 2000s the standard advice was not to put public info about yourself online. "internet hygiene" was the norm, even when most people weren't "digital natives".

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#134
post #56
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is sculpting, or painting, a step in the march away from language, too? Is dancing? What about videos of people dancing is going to hurt literacy. People will consume Apps instead of TV, neither are literature, but one you can participate in. You may be too old to let yourself like new things. Where's the childlike wonder? I don't use The Tik toks either, but let me not lose mine.

Sculpting, painting, dancing etc is creation. Watching other people do it is not.

> Watching other people do it is not.

Are you equally as dismissive of reading books other people wrote?

The heart of TikTok is video creation and remix. That's why memes spread so quickly there.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As opposed to US based networks? There are important differences between being influenced by domestic actors, as part of a domestic political process, and being influenced by foreign actors. The latter is a far more serious threat to political independence. It's also pretty well documented that the PRC political authorities already use its domestic social networks in this way.

I am Dutch.

And I'm an American, speaking as an American. If you want to ban Facebook and Tiktok in the Netherlands over these issues, it's totally fine by me. I have no love for any social network.

I actually had a thought in the back of my mind that the outlook may be different in other countries, but I didn't write it down. Especially since American companies have a tendency to pursue their own agendas, even against the American government.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#136

I'm really curious if China will go after bytedance next in its crackdown. My guess would be no. Alibaba, Tencent, DiDi, Meituan all are either local champions that have no competitive advantage overseas - and thus does not help China's growth. But TikTok actually represents that China might have a competitive advantage in deep learning algos that takes massive amount of data - therefore it would be spare from crackd…

> FB, Google, AWS, and Azue all have a competitive advantage that China don't - English.

While true, that's the lesser of the competitive advantages. China's companies are locked in a highly restrictive CCP control box, which they're not allowed out of. That box will shrink further, suffocating the companies as it goes. It heavily limits how they can compete, what they can do, how fast they can move, and those restrictions will keep getting worse. This isn't even the middle part of the craziness that we'll see out of the dictatorship in China. Dictatorships always get ferociously psychotic as they age, hyper paranoid, increasingly detached from reality (nobody dares to tell them the truth, fear of reprisal increases drastically, so the ability to govern gets worse with time). The purges will get worse, the controls will get worse. It'll make it far more difficult for China's big tech companies to operate, they'll be increasingly hamstrung.

The CCP probably won't need to directly hit ByteDance at this point. They've already restrained the company, it got the message as everybody else has. ByteDance will reaffirm that it understands its place in the scheme of things and comply with Beijing's understood wishes. ByteDance was planning an IPO and cancelled it at the behest of Beijing.

The fake cover reason was data security. The real reason is that Xi and the CCP want China's tech giants pulled back home and away from foreign listings (foreign ownership, foreign influence). China ideally wants those listings to be domestic-only in the future.

Had ByteDance pressed forward with the IPO, they would have been mauled with a giant fine and investigated (turned over) as Didi was.

July 12, Wall Street Journal -

"ByteDance Shelved IPO Intentions After Chinese Regulators Warned About Data Security"

"The Beijing-based social-media giant, last valued at $180 billion in a funding round in December, had been weighing an initial public offering of all or some of its businesses in the U.S. or Hong Kong, according to people familiar with the company’s plans.

But the company’s founder, Zhang Yiming, decided it would be wiser to put the plans on ice in late March, after meetings with cyberspace and securities regulators in which they asked the company to focus on addressing data-security risks and other issues, the people familiar with the matter said."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bytedance-shelvedipo-intentions...

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#138

Pro TikTok take. It's easier and friendlier to consume. The algorithm is good at tailoring interests. But, it's more like TV than FB.

It’s also much more positive. If I spend 20 minutes on TikTok I usually laugh and smile a few times. And regularly I’m impressed at human creativity. 20 minutes on Instagram or Facebook is usually either boring or leaves me comparing myself to others. 20 minutes on YouTube and I feel like I’ve watched 10 minutes of ads and 10 minutes of fluff. 20 minutes on Reddit and I hate the world.

Specialized reddits about programming topics, drugs, do it yourself stuff etc are quite good TBH. People are much more helpful then on some other popular places such as Stack Exchange in my opinion which hoards achievement people which do not generally answer unless there is a chance they will get a vote or something.

Mainstream reddits could be junk ..

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#139

Pro TikTok take. It's easier and friendlier to consume. The algorithm is good at tailoring interests. But, it's more like TV than FB.

Honestly, from a social media perspective, TikTok feels like the least toxic environment. Nobody is showing off their new homes, cars, kids, spending. It feels like a significantly reduced pressure to produce. Many of my friends are just consumers of content. Most of the content I'm seeing are memes and are funny. Even the advertising is more light hearted.

>TikTok feels like the least toxic environment.

That's because It's the least commercialized of the social platforms and dominated by youth (for now). AKA we're at the end of it's honeymoon hip-new-platform phase. The company cannot maintain meteoric user-growth forever as there's only so many people in the world, and their primary target demographic that is responsible for much of their growth is already nearing saturation (the youth).

As such, they're at an inflection point in their user growth and their operating costs have never been higher. Billions in revenue will only tempt investors for so long when they're still netting a loss in the billions a year and their growth curve is starting to relax. This will see the implementation of more dark patterns to monetize the revenue per user while simultaneously the users on the platform will search for any and every possible advantage to leverage their following for clout and profit (especially as the userbase ages into adulthood and has bills to pay) and ultimately we'll see the same poisoning of the well that we've seen with every other social media platform to date. Question is just how bad it will get.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...don't post? Every platform has (read: is primarily ) lurkers.

Lurking doesn't seem all that appealing to me either. I just checked the tiktok homepage and the top two videos I saw were of a woman failing a sobriety test and a guy scaring a drive-through woman with a blow horn. I realize this isn't the content you might see once your algo is calculated, but it's obviously popular stuff on the platform and it just doesn't seem like very positive content for me.

Oh, that's nothing. There's also things like "if this $optical_illusion moves, you have $disorder", or people faking DID and showing off their "alters".
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