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WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

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Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#131

Post by GeekyBear »

hef19898 wrote: post #115
GeekyBear wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's definitely the last straw for me in terms of apple products. Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, etc. have all been scanning content for those same child porn images for darn near a decade now. >The system that scans cloud drives for illegal images was created by Microsoft and Dartmouth College and donated to NCMEC. The organization creates signatures of the worst known images of child pornography, approximat…

Scanning on their cloud storage is different from scanning on users devices. The latter is opening a door to mass surveillance that wasn't even there before. That is the problem, not the scanning itself.

The thing that is changing here is that the images are scanned on the device before being uploaded to the cloud, instead of being scanned on the server after they are uploaded to the cloud.

If it hasn't been a problem that Google has been scanning your cloud data for the last decade, it didn't suddenly become a problem now.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#132

Post by nicce »

DangerousPie wrote: post #124
carom wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem I have with this approach is that it introduces on-device scan for images. Windows already does this via Windows Defender. This is a basic AV functionality and much more privacy preserving.

But Windows Defender doesn't report you to law enforcement when it believes it found a virus.

How do you know that? It is blackbox paradox, and all we have is what they say. They might report CSAM hashes to law enforcements. Any file can be a threat, hence images are included for scans. Defender also uploads whole files as unencrypted if you don’t opt-out.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#133

Post by hansel_der »

holstvoogd wrote: post #65

I'm so fucking tired of these asswipes from companies are a thousand times worse pretending they are better. They literally sell all your data to anyone who wants is, but noooo, apple bad! I'm not saying apple is some kind of bastion of privacy or whatever, but at least they are not selling my data to pay for their spyware vessels. To those 'experts': Get off you high horse and do better. Prove me wrong, go build a w…

> Prove me wrong, go build a working open-source phone, go provide a image hosting service that does not analyze every single photo you upload.

the market says it has to be either free or elitist/glamorous, superior and idealistic don't work.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#134

Post by vel0city »

hughrr wrote: post #6
zpeti wrote: post #3

I really hope there is enough momentum to stop this. It's definitely the last straw for me in terms of apple products. I haven't bought a new iphone for 4 years, I'm slowly trying to switch to a lightphone (non smartphone). My mac needs a change but I will probably switch to linux. It's absolutely ridiculous what apple has become. The exact opposite of what they used to represent, when I loved them. God rest Steve Jo…

It’s too late either way. The fact that it even got this far through implementation says the vendor is not on my side. Not only that once capability is revealed it can be required by governments and manipulated under warrant. Particularly in some regimes, mine included, the vendor can be compelled to do something and not say anything. My comment doesn’t even cover how monumentally flawed the entire thing is either. S…

Before buying the DSLR, I'd recommend at least checking out the 1" sensor size market. These cameras still take excellent quality photos in a wide range of lighting conditions but are so much more compact than having an interchangeable lens system.

I sold my DSLR a couple of years after getting my G9x Mark II. The DSLR was always gathering dust compared to the G9x which with a small belt case could easily be taken anywhere.

That said these cameras are definitely not as flexible as a full SLR nor will you get the same performance. Its a large sensor when compared to a camera or other point and shoots but its still nothing compared to APS-C.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#135

Post by nicce »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #67
siscia wrote: post #35

So I was ignorant on the issue and completely against the approach of Apple. Then HN taught me that any company storing images on their infrastructure in the US must report pedophilic images to the US government. At this point, the approach taken by Apple seems like the best one to me, if you don't want to store pictures in clear on your servers. What other technical approach are people advocating for? Another point…

They could still do the scanning, but if the photo fails it would just refuse to upload it and display an error to inform the user that the photo will not synchronize. There is no reason that the results of the scans need to be sent to Apple servers.

If you read the technical details, result of the scan is packed with the photo. So, if upload of photo fails, then result of the scan is not uploaded as well.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#136

Post by hansel_der »

a254613e wrote: post #79
holstvoogd wrote: post #65

I'm so fucking tired of these asswipes from companies are a thousand times worse pretending they are better. They literally sell all your data to anyone who wants is, but noooo, apple bad! I'm not saying apple is some kind of bastion of privacy or whatever, but at least they are not selling my data to pay for their spyware vessels. To those 'experts': Get off you high horse and do better. Prove me wrong, go build a w…

> They literally sell all your data to anyone who wants is Where/how can I buy all data for, let's say a dozen users, that facebook collects? No wonder public is completely misinformed about how ad revenue based companies operate when even on HN blatant lies are highly upvoted.

yes "selling the data" is a oversimplification. but "they sell access to your data to other companies, that also have a significant base of user/customer-data, and this let's those other companies correlate your identity/profile" is just not as catchy or understandable.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#137

Post by TravisHusky »

This whole thing was the final straw to get me to switch away from iPhone. I decided to get a PinePhone, even though they are not ready for primetime, I am an embedded OS developer by trade, so I figure I might as well give it a go and see what I can contribute. I only use my phone for web browsing and Telegram anyway which are apparently usable on PinePhone.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#138

Post by nicce »

PolCPP wrote: post #41
siscia wrote: post #35

So I was ignorant on the issue and completely against the approach of Apple. Then HN taught me that any company storing images on their infrastructure in the US must report pedophilic images to the US government. At this point, the approach taken by Apple seems like the best one to me, if you don't want to store pictures in clear on your servers. What other technical approach are people advocating for? Another point…

You could generate hash on device, send it to server alongside the file, once validated delete hash or create decoding voucher.

This is exactly what they are doing right now. Decoding voucher applies when their system thinks that too many hashes goes into CSAM category.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#139

Post by hef19898 »

unionpivo wrote: post #125
hef19898 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say next in line would be stuff oppressive governments don't like. Winnie the Puuh might be front runner along with men standing shirtless in front of tanks.

Everything sold in China, already has that. Remember ICloud is operated by Chinese company in china.

And we all now that these governments stop carrying about their citizens at the border. Not.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#140

Post by kkarakk »

And the journey to not being able to trust big tech smartphones just like you can't trust big tech social media has been completed.

Guess I'm gonna have to buy a semi terrible privacy focused smart device with phone capabilities in the near future.

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