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The surreal experience of my first developer job

bennuttall.com

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Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK IT salaries are really low and it's easy to set up a company. If you make economy business-friendly it's probably same as Android app store without a fee.

>UK IT salaries are really low Maybe compared to the crazy US salaries you see here, but compared to continental Europe, CoL adjusted UK salaries are difficult to beat and also you have a lot more interesting opportunities there vs here where it's mostly small web-shops or big name consultancy sweatshops. Wanna see low (CoL adjusted) tech salaries? Try Spain/Italy/Austria/France where they shaft you with high taxes a…

This isn't the case. People read about salaries in the UK, and they are usually referring to one of the big tech cities.

In reality, most tech jobs are the small web-shops or big-name consultancy sweatshops (one particular example is Edinburgh, huge market for tech jobs, there are quite a few startups now but the tech industry ten years ago, the period when the OP occurred, it was mostly sweatshops...and still is to a large extent, large companies who open up an office but labour is cheap, and will head off to Eastern Europe if wages rise). Starting salaries under £20k are not unusual in the UK, and startups are still definitely the exception outside London. In particular, the market for grads in the UK is very difficult...it is very, very hard to get your first job because there are lots of scammy companies offering slavery wages, lots of consultancies looking to churn staff, and a relatively small number of decent companies that often aren't particularly good at hiring (or willing to train, or willing to take risks...the UK job market is flexible relative to Europe but not flexible enough that employers don't view hiring someone as a big risk...because it is).

To say this another way, the UK does have some startups where you can make decent money...but the core of the industry that employs most people is just like Europe (because the UK still isn't very well-developed outside London).

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK IT salaries are really low and it's easy to set up a company. If you make economy business-friendly it's probably same as Android app store without a fee.

>UK IT salaries are really low Maybe compared to the crazy US salaries you see here, but compared to continental Europe, CoL adjusted UK salaries are difficult to beat and also you have a lot more interesting opportunities there vs here where it's mostly small web-shops or big name consultancy sweatshops. Wanna see low (CoL adjusted) tech salaries? Try Spain/Italy/Austria/France where they shaft you with high taxes a…

It's kind of an "be grateful for what you have because so many people have it worse" argument.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#133
post #114

This literally could have been written by any developer in the UK. I think most of us start out like this! I think the best one was a company I worked for in Leeds, it was building a secure learning platform for schools which ultimately fell flat on it's arse. The company was run by a self-made millionaire who was notorious for scamming people. He'd randomly lay off huge numbers of the sales team, and the first anyon…

> we'd have to ring the "office manager" (ex-SAS) I'm not sure what's the fetish with the SAS, but I apparently know more people who where in the or with strong ties to the SAS than regular British folks... OTOH, after knowing some actual members of various special forces for 2 decades: If they saw action, they don't brag. They are usually shy to admit anything even if it is not classified. Or the other way around: T…

A drunk ex-pat walks into a bar. He is a navyseal, with three tours of combat and also the CEO of a public traded company.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#134
post #53

I have an anecdote which I entitled "The Man Without Pants". It takes around 20 minutes to deliver but the gist is that I spent a month working for a man who had a peculiar dress code - and that wasn't even the weirdest thing about that place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q7Cy3qSwKI&ab_channel=MattH...

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#135
My first job as a developer was a gift from heaven. I started as a non educated pho developer. I hardly knew the concept of OOP. A very talented smart colleague took care of me for about 4 years. He reached me everything. From PHP to C to high and low level programming. Without him I would be in a very different situation. After that first job I got a decent job at another company. Few years later I was able to start my own company. Now in my second company for a few years. I believe coaching is the most important skill to have in a company. I was young inexperienced, but I was super motivated. Worked even during the evening's just because I liked it so much.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#138

My first paid developer job was writing backend code for what I would later learn was the Canadian mafia. I was doing some backend and embedded work to build super shitty gambling kiosks for them. They already had some person "managing" project and the Indian contract house that was building flash games for the kiosk. He was useless, so I was stuck figuring everything out. Including getting things running on a then o…

There’s a Canadian mafia?

Hah, whenever I tell this story that is always the first thing people say.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#139

This literally could have been written by any developer in the UK. I think most of us start out like this! I think the best one was a company I worked for in Leeds, it was building a secure learning platform for schools which ultimately fell flat on it's arse. The company was run by a self-made millionaire who was notorious for scamming people. He'd randomly lay off huge numbers of the sales team, and the first anyon…

You continued to work for 3 months without getting paid?

We'd been working there for about 2 years at that point, had always got paid, had been the same team since day 0 so we had no reason to doubt the "I'm just waiting for the next investment to clear in the company account then I'll pay you everything you're owed" message. Plus the arrogance and naivety of "it's a tech company, he needs us to do anything so he's got to pay us eventually".

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#140

My first paid developer job was writing backend code for what I would later learn was the Canadian mafia. I was doing some backend and embedded work to build super shitty gambling kiosks for them. They already had some person "managing" project and the Indian contract house that was building flash games for the kiosk. He was useless, so I was stuck figuring everything out. Including getting things running on a then o…

Working for the mob can be a good deal. Basically no oversight into what you are doing because they don't have the technical knowledge to judge your work. Overpay (if sometimes irregular), and easy hours. As long as you don't "know" they are doing anything illegal with your work, and no one can prove that you know what they are doing. It can work out. The worst part about it is they try to make up for their lack of t…

> As long as you don't "know" they are doing anything illegal with your work, and no one can prove that you know what they are doing. It can work out.

...and no personal ethical dilemmas with said arrangement.

> The worst part about it is they try to make up for their lack of technical knowledge as a manager by becoming close with you in a personal way.

FWIW, this happens outside the mob too.

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