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Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

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Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#131

Post by [deleted] »

wpietri wrote: post #59
cracker_jacks wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficulty of increasing supply has directly led to increased home prices.

Supply increase difficulty has not changed recently. Demand increase has. So if we're going to blame it on one factor, it makes sense to pick the one that has changed and is easier to control. Less friction in increasing supply is also not an unalloyed good. You can look at the commercial office market, which is much less restricted and has huge boom/bust cycles. And that's before we get to the externalities of rapid…

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#132

Post by bostonsre »

conradev wrote: post #110
bostonsre wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. Isn't the other side of the argument also concerned with housing prices and money? > To be clear, I don't have a problem with people renting out rooms or an ADU on their property. What do you see a…

The blurry line you are referencing is actually quite clear legally: is the accommodation short-term or not? (defined by the regulatory environment) Wherein Airbnb stays are usually short-term and renting out an ADU is usually longer term

The person I was replying to enumerated a list of reasons for airbnb being bad. The reasons he gave seem like there could be a good amount of overlap between non-airbnb rentals and airbnb rentals.

The law is just the current rules that are defined for a given jurisdiction. I don't think they codify the reasoning behind why the law was enacted, what it was looking to prevent, or how it hoped to achieve that. The reasoning behind why these laws were enacted could range from genuine concern for safety to nymby-ish "because I want my house to appreciate in value more".

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#133

Post by voisin »

jwilber wrote: post #40

As this topic becomes more and more mainstream, I look forward to the numerous Twitter posts sure to come from Airbnb employees about the taxing social implications that come with working at Airbnb, how it weighs on their conscious, and and their ultimate decision to follow what’s right and leave. But only after their RSU’s have vested, of course. More seriously, I’ve been very disappointed with Airbnb recently. I sp…

I think AirBNB itself is at fault for the price inflation. They advise their hosts as to market prices using some sort of calculator (source: friend who runs an AirBNB) and the output seems to be absurd, but when everyone in a market follows it, it becomes the market. AirBNB is relying on the idea that it is big enough that the other guys (VRBO, etc) will follow suit since everyone wins. I have been shocked recently to see how much cheaper good quality hotels are than AirBNBs.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#134

Post by jolux »

Jarwain wrote: post #128
Tempest1981 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who should pay for the increased enforcement? > anonymous tip line Run by Airbnb? Seems reasonable.

Ideally the fines would pay for the program, but how expensive is it really to have an anonymous phone tip line, and reuse existing infrastructure to fine or ticket a property owner?

> how expensive is it really

The answer, as with all govtech, is “a lot more than it should be.” Governments, especially local governments, have no internal technology competence, and have to rely on vendors and contractors for absolutely everything.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#135

Post by oh_sigh »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115
cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

NYC has that tip line: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/specialenforcement/stay-in-the-kno...

tl;dr: Don't use it, it is worthless.

I called once after an AirBNBer tried to kick down my door at 3AM because he was on the wrong floor. Same guy projectile vomited red wine and bile all over the hallway as he stumbled away before falling asleep in the stairwell.

Anyways, so I called the tip line, and they asked me "When do they show up?". I said I don't know, these people are strangers and I don't know their schedule. I was told to call back when I see them entering the building. So I did that when I saw them entering the building, and I was told "Thank you, we will send someone around shortly". But there were 90 units in my building...how would they know where to look or who to talk to? I was told "We'll talk to management". And then I asked them when they will be here, and they said "Within 6 hours, or possible tomorrow". Why it was so important that I only call them when I physically see someone entering the building if they are going to wait 24 hours to do anything - I do not know.

I'm fairly convinced the NYC tip line is just for show and no one really cares in NYC about stopping illegal short term rentals.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#136

Post by jolux »

dorchadas wrote: post #127
cletus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all this. I'll further add that the landlord being there means they can't simply foist loud, unruly or unsafe temporary residents on an area where he or she does not have any skin in the game. That is, they have to suffer the consequences too. This invariably will lead to less negative externalities. But this fits into a broader belief that I have, which is that cities should generally be for the residen…

> But this fits into a broader belief that I have, which is that cities should generally be for the residents of them first and foremost It's so weird to me to think that this isn't considered the default view. I 100% agree with it, and think it should be the obvious view, but it's clear there's many who do disagree.

It is the default view. The problem is that our tax structures and zoning regulations incentivize this behavior. We need a land value tax to really put an end to it, and get rid of the laws that stop housing supply from meeting demand in cities across the US.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#137

Post by michaelpb »

cletus wrote: post #130
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

> The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. Great idea. Let's fine AirBnB $50,000 per unit per year they knowingly rent out in NYC where they know such things are illegal. Don't go after the users (those using AirBnB) or the street dealers (those listing individual units). Go after the cartel that knowingly engages in illegal activity on a massive scale. That'll sort out the problem r…

Yeah, I think people have a very binary view of "criminal enterprises" vs "corporations", like they can only be people who dress in pin-stripe suits and carry tommy guns and say "lookee here, see" a lot, but a tech company can be a criminal enterprise just as much as anything else. Any company that makes money by violating the law, or encouraging it's habitual violation, is a criminal enterprise by definition (at least by the colloquial definition), even if a top boss keeps his "nose clean". Just like with any other criminal enterprise, going after the top is going to be the most effective. I hope with more research like this, maybe attitudes will change.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#138

Post by kelnos »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115
cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

> The person submitting the tip about an illegal AirBnB receives 25% of the fine.

I feel like the whole "rat on your neighbors for money" thing has a lot of negative unintended consequences.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#139

Post by acituan »

stickfigure wrote: post #47
dorchadas wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it wasn't for people turning that supply into AirBnBs to satisfy their short term greed and tourists, there wouldn't be as much of an issue. AirBnB has certainly contributed a lot to the lack of supply in major tourist destinations.

Tourists are people too. This really seems like an extreme version of nativism.

Only if you ignore the difference between immigration and tourism.

A tourist is fundamentally there for temporary and consumptive reasons. They don't have any long term interests about the place they visit. They are accommodated as guests. As such, it is only rational that they don't receive the exact same consideration as the residents who have their skin-in-the-game of that same place.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#140

Post by Tempest1981 »

Jarwain wrote: post #128
Tempest1981 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who should pay for the increased enforcement? > anonymous tip line Run by Airbnb? Seems reasonable.

Ideally the fines would pay for the program, but how expensive is it really to have an anonymous phone tip line, and reuse existing infrastructure to fine or ticket a property owner?

And the cost for an enforcement agent/department to investigate. And each agent's salary, benefits, and pension.

In many cities, the police don't even respond to auto/bike burglaries -- they're very minimally staffed.

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