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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#131

Post by mym1990 »

mgh2 wrote: post #110
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

We were built to work, to have purpose. Having meaningful work is key - this is what the FIRE movement misunderstood. By meaningful, I mean to someone other your yourself or your extended self (family). Our purpose is to serve others, not ourselves.

It all depends on what the definition of work here is, right(there is the capitalistic sense, or the purely physical/mental expenditure of energy)? I don't think we really know what we were built for, if anything...

The beauty is that one human can spend 70 years meditating and find purpose in that and another human can build a rocket ship and go to space and find purpose in that...and then you have everything in between and outside!

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#132

Post by samuelbalogh »

mgh2 wrote: post #110
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

We were built to work, to have purpose. Having meaningful work is key - this is what the FIRE movement misunderstood. By meaningful, I mean to someone other your yourself or your extended self (family). Our purpose is to serve others, not ourselves.

I would disagree with "We were built for work". Evolutionary, we were built to survive until reproduction age and a bit longer after that, to care for offsprings.

I think people who misunderstand the FIRE movement think that early retirees don't want to do meaningful work, like volunteering, painting, making music, etc. I think that is the point of FIRE - to be able to do the most meaningful things you can think of.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#133

Post by barrkel »

bambax wrote: post #127
dcolkitt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting is the radical change over the past century, from a life of pure leisure being the mark of the aristocratic upper class to the lumpenproletariat. I love how Downton Abbey conveys this now alien concept to us early on by having the Dowager Countess ask " what is a 'weekend'? ". The perfect modern counter-balance is the classic line from Office Space: " Well, you don't need a million dollars to do no…

Work as purpose is a rather novel idea. Max Weber is really helpful here, and his seminal book, while published in 1905, seems more relevant than ever. It used to be that you worked just as much as you needed to, to sustain yourself. So much so that raising wages would immediately result in people working less, as they could earn the same amount of money with less work. Then at some point work became a "calling" and…

You can make an analogy with the theory of the firm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_the_firm). More workers = more transaction costs. Twice as many people working half as many hours is more expensive; it's more efficient to employ people full time.

You'd expect this to crowd out many part-time jobs, jobs that aren't autonomous and low-context. That is, fast food cook, delivery driver, cleaning jobs etc. can be done part-time, but it's much harder to find shorter hours for white-collar work.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#134

Post by amishAmigo »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

You live "among" them meaning "surrounded by" or "as a member of" their community?

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#135

Post by mgh2 »

vlunkr wrote: post #117
mgh2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were built to work, to have purpose. Having meaningful work is key - this is what the FIRE movement misunderstood. By meaningful, I mean to someone other your yourself or your extended self (family). Our purpose is to serve others, not ourselves.

Isn't the post you're replying to evidence against this? They have financial independence, and now they are finding meaningful work. I agree that we need a sense of purpose for happiness/mental health, but why does that have to be "working for the man?".

Why is "working for the man" so bad when it gives purpose in your life?

The article showed how unsatisfied his wife was when she felt as "not going anywhere", I think she was trying to say that she does not feel any sort of progress or growth on any level.

As it is torture to keep someone in a room with no stimulation, it is the same with repetition and no change or progress.

“Industry, thrift and self-control are not sought because they create wealth, but because they create character.” - Calvin Coolidge

We need this aspect for personal development.

Metaphor: https://m-g-h.medium.com/disneys-strategy-against-netflix-4d...

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#136

Post by legohead »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

I know exactly what makes me happy -- playing video games, eating good food, living in a nice climate (CA or Hawaii), and traveling the world. Unfortunately my happiness comes with a price tag.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#137

Post by PragmaticPulp »

neogodless wrote: post #24
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

I will not be bored when I am not compelled to work. I was unemployed for six months during the pandemic. Boy did I fail to be bored! I overhauled my garage, building a French cleat system and organizing all of my tools. I built a movie/reading nook for my spouse, with a sliding bookshelf door. I caught up on cutting and splitting firewood for winter. I played board games, cooked, baked, rode bike almost every day, s…

> I overhauled my garage, building a French cleat system and organizing all of my tools. I built a movie/reading nook for my spouse, with a sliding bookshelf door. I caught up on cutting and splitting firewood for winter. I played board games, cooked, baked, rode bike almost every day, sat in the cool breeze overlooking nature, sat by the fire pit and boy, was I not bored.

Your post looks a lot like what I did along side a 40 hour per week job before I reached FIRE. Sure, I couldn’t do it as quickly but it’s not as though having a job is mutually exclusive with riding a bike every day or overhauling the garage on weekends.

One of the biggest things I learned post-FIRE was that doing the things I enjoy wasn’t as difficult as I had come to think while I was employed. There’s something about FIRE blogs that makes it easy to think of activities as pre-FIRE (work) and post-FIRE (fun).

Instead, I’d rather work on balance. Find jobs where 40 hours per week is average and I don’t have to waste time on commuting. Then make time in the evenings and weekends to do things I enjoy.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#138

Post by UnFleshedOne »

OJFord wrote: post #56
thaumasiotes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really find yourself reaching the end of a weekend and thinking Oh thank God I have work tomorrow, I'm so bored? The comment above you is channeling the common need to say anything, no matter what it is, in response to an attack on tradition. This is why people in Oregon hear about a proposal to make pumping your own gas legal and respond "but what if somebody doesn't know how?", as if it were difficult to k…

I realise this is a tangent, but what is 'pumping your own gas'? (And if not clear from that answer, why do people in Oregon specifically object? Not from the US.)

I think that's literally about putting the gas line into your tank and pressing the trigger...

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#139

Post by low_common »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

How do you "live amongst the Amish"? Sounds like you're contributing to their community in some ways ie. dam building. Did you buy any land from them or a home? Just renting? I always assumed that they're an insular community. Want to get down there sometime and try the food. PA Dutch food looks so good.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#140

Post by BoxOfRain »

icedchai wrote: post #33
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #3

This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…

Boredom is my own personal fear. I hit my FIRE number back in 2018. I was going to retire at N amount or age 45. I hit N pretty early, couldn't pull the trigger, a few more years passed by. Now I'm almost double N due to stock market / money printing inflation. This is approximately 50x my yearly expenses. Ideal situation is 2 to 3 days of work a week, with very few zoom meetings, scrums, or other bullshit.

>Ideal situation is 2 to 3 days of work a week, with very few zoom meetings, scrums, or other bullshit.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could trade pay or hours for avoiding arseache like you can negotiate a salary? Like, "I'll take a 5% salary cut but I'll not be required to attend certain meetings" or "I'll work an extra x hours a week for free but I'll never have touch an Atlassian product ever again".

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