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Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

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Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#131
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> indoctrination and propaganda happening in US education What evidence do you have that it is happening and on what scale? My teachers, all that I recall, never presented any opinion or perspective as truth. It was always about thinking critically for ourselves. If, for example, they presented a well-established view on the sinking of the Maine , it was as material for our analysis and evaluation.

The evidence that radicals have already successfully overtaken Western universities is overwhelming, and the evidence that these radicals are in the process of taking over secondary education is also readily available for anyone who is interested. If you are actually looking for some eyewitness accounts, Jordan Peterson has many podcasts where he interviews specific people that have experienced the ideological takeov…

There's no evidence in the parent, just the opinions of a few political actors.

> radicals have already successfully overtaken Western universities

Ironically, this uses techniques from the OP. It's an emotional appeal - calling people radicals, catastrophizing, etc. - but there's no evidence and really no information. Hyperbole eliminates information; it's like screaming 'we're all going to die!'.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#132
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> indoctrination and propaganda happening in US education What evidence do you have that it is happening and on what scale? My teachers, all that I recall, never presented any opinion or perspective as truth. It was always about thinking critically for ourselves. If, for example, they presented a well-established view on the sinking of the Maine , it was as material for our analysis and evaluation.

The evidence that radicals have already successfully overtaken Western universities is overwhelming, and the evidence that these radicals are in the process of taking over secondary education is also readily available for anyone who is interested. If you are actually looking for some eyewitness accounts, Jordan Peterson has many podcasts where he interviews specific people that have experienced the ideological takeov…

Jordan Peterson is the worst kind of bloviating bullshitter pushing divisive bad faith talking points designed to muddy and degrade debate, in my ever so humble opinion.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger concern is that professional educators are being overruled by politicians about what is in the curriculum. Such as the recent wave of anti-Critical Race Theories laws being handed down because of a panic created by right-wing media.

No. The panic is not created by the media. I don't want my kids to be taught how White people are racists, or "people of color" are oppressed. Even I am not a White.

Where did you hear that kids are being taught those things?

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#134
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children aren't property. It's perfectly reasonable for society to take children away from parents. We do it for various forms of abuse. We obviously want to be careful, but I see no reason to allow 14-year-olds to get married off by their parents to adult men in their cult. Nor do I think it's okay to change that to the parents let their 14-year-olds get groomed for 4 years either.

> It's perfectly reasonable for society to take children away from parents. The way you state this makes it sound like this should be the /norm/, though, as opposed to only being applied in concrete exigent circumstances such as the ones you name.

While it is not the /norm/, it is quite common: almost 150K children are removed from their parents and put into foster care a year. Exigent circumstances happen quite a lot.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#135
post #28

There's a lot of good content in this article focused on the media. The media is highly visible and well-documented, so it makes sense. I'd like to see more content about indoctrination and propaganda happening in US education. This to me is much more insidious as it takes an impressionable populace (kids and young adults) and provides an authority figure (teachers and professors) that are largely hidden from public…

Do private schools not have propaganda? Student have over a dozen teachers over the course of education. If they "provide whatever narrative they like " it seems students would get a diverse range of perspectives. Not to mention all the perspectives they get from other authorities like their churches, clubs, family members, and... every adult they encounter, and every book too.

Most private schools are still required to follow a state mandated curriculum in many areas, and are still hiring from the same pool of indoctrinated teachers. You could make a propaganda light private school, but that would need to be your explicit goal.

Sure, children will encounter a diverse range of ideas. Schooling dominates in time spent with, and it is the one most likely to reward or punish a child for regurgitating an ideology.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#136
post #74
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using a different definition than the article. It's developed a negative connotation, but originally it referred to any dissemination of information made to influence public opinion. It refers to the motivation, not the content. Even citing true, non-misleading statistics in order to accomplish something good for society is propaganda, according to the old meaning. ("Propaganda" comes from a word that literall…

I don't know why people are saying the article uses a morally neutral definition of propaganda. It starts with saying "Propaganda is information (delivered through any medium) designed to persuade, manipulate emotion, and change opinion rather than to inform using logical truths and facts. The aim of propaganda is to change minds via the use of emotion, misinformation, disinformation, truths, half-truths, and cleverl…

How do we classify messaging campaigns the government puts out that aren't particularly manipulative or harmful? For instance, are posters telling people to wear mosquito repellent and to drain pools of standing water be considered propaganda? My understanding is that they would. But it fails the manipulative test. I don't know if we have a good word in the vernacular for the kinds of messaging I'm talking about. Public Service Announcement?

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#137
post #62
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but I have no idea how one would come to the conclusion that 90% of journalists are engaging in intentional propaganda. I can understand if you think they have unconscious biases that influence their work, but believing 90% of the profession ix trying to actively manipulate you is just disconnected from reality.

I don't want to necessarily pick on the left here, but the most in-your-face example is all the so-called 'wokeness' in the media. This is a conscious effort to promote the 'inclusiveness' or however you want to phrase it. It's discussed openly how do you want people to react to what you publish. Have you ever considered that it might be your own personal biases that you don't see it?

I don't want to necessarily pick on the right here, but the most in-your-face example is all the so-called 'rationality' in the media. This is a conscious effort to promote the 'reactionary tribalism' or however you want to phrase it.

You should try to consider what unnoticed propaganda has led you to (apparently) separate "wokeness," as a concept, from just "being polite" or "treating people with respect".

It is closely related to the similar discussions had over "political correctness".

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger concern is that professional educators are being overruled by politicians about what is in the curriculum. Such as the recent wave of anti-Critical Race Theories laws being handed down because of a panic created by right-wing media.

No. The panic is not created by the media. I don't want my kids to be taught how White people are racists, or "people of color" are oppressed. Even I am not a White.

I actually do share the concern that fairly far-right wing people are politicizing education.

But - CRT in it's applied form ultimately turns into 'propaganda' and there should be some legislative parameters around it.

The basic CRT premise of 'Minorities who live in Majority Culture are suppressed in systematic ways, and that we should be more sensitive to that and it's historical impact' ... is definitely fair.

So there's a legit grounding in aspects of CRT.

If that were it, then then this would be a good thing.

But the rhetorical application of CRT gets pretty vicious, pretty quickly, and it turns to the language of 'race war' almost instantly.

In particular, using terminology such as 'White Supremacy' which is normally associated with 'Men in White Pointy Hats' as purposefully toxic language, the tactic of castigating anyone who doesn't support their cause as 'upholding White Supremacy' and therefore racism etc. are common.

Controversial foundational elements such as rejecting liberal and enlightenment values (literally objective truth) in favour of one's own 'realized or expressed truth' in addition to issues such as rejecting the foundation of the written word etc..

There's been a few debates here on HN, but there is documentation from school boards on 'how the teaching of Math upholds White Supremacy' because it ostensibly implies 'linear thinking', 'predicate knowledge' and other artifacts of supposed 'White Supremacy'. The response to this particularly bad form of CRT on HN usually comes in the form of discounting classical teaching pedagogy as being possibly too 'stifled' - but that has absolutely nothing to do with race and there is no evidence whatsoever to back it up. In reality - certain groups (Hispanics, Blacks) do poorly, and other groups - including minorities/people of colour (Whites, Asians) do just fine under the same pedagogy and what's more likely is that kids who show up for class, who have good parents, who want to learn etc. (i.e. the obvious things) do just fine. CRT 'in practice' in this situation is unsubstantiated, anti-scientific, anti-progressive ideological rubbish in making excuses for kids who don't do well in math. It's 'good intentions run ideologically wild'.

Last week a New Jersey school board opted to remove the names of all holidays from their calendar and replace them with just 'Holiday'. This one is actually a pretty good example of the intersection of CRT and the effete values of school administrators: July 4, Easter, Memorial Day are just 'too controversial' for our kids to be exposed to, therefore, we'll just mark them as 'Holiday'.

That to me represents a kind of ideological 'crossing of the line': if our educators are interested in making sure kids hear about slavery and segregation, that seems reasonable. Important, actually. But erasing civic holidays because of concerns of CRT is I think 'radical', and there are people in every school board in America who would like to follow suit and CRT gives them basically the impetus to 'Be on the right side of history' (in their view) despite the 'Ugly, angry, overtly traditional parents' (again view of the teachers).

There's a little bit of a postmodern aspect to CRT - it's a 'turning inside out' kind of ideology, allowing adherents to basically refute anything and everything part of he 'conventional narrative' and replace it with ... well whatever they want. This is what makes it scary.

CRT has some valid intellectual underpinnings, but it ends up being like ugly Red Hat Trumpism for the Left. I actually support some aspects of it but I have no trust in the education system to use it responsibly.

Unfortunately, I think the 'sides' are talking past each other I don't see any consensus developing just yet.

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#139

There's a lot of good content in this article focused on the media. The media is highly visible and well-documented, so it makes sense. I'd like to see more content about indoctrination and propaganda happening in US education. This to me is much more insidious as it takes an impressionable populace (kids and young adults) and provides an authority figure (teachers and professors) that are largely hidden from public…

> indoctrination and propaganda happening in US education What evidence do you have that it is happening and on what scale? My teachers, all that I recall, never presented any opinion or perspective as truth. It was always about thinking critically for ourselves. If, for example, they presented a well-established view on the sinking of the Maine , it was as material for our analysis and evaluation.

That's a real thing, though. In fact, some legislatures are so concerned that they've started passing laws prohibiting propaganda. Example is the recent HB3979 bill:

https://legiscan.com/TX/text/HB3979/id/2339637

Re: Types of propaganda, propaganda techniques, and propaganda strategies (2017)

#140

Outdated, the US Democrats raised the bar with their spectacular propaganda campaign leading to the 2020 elections.

I would say the alternate reality that the Republican Party is living in is the gold standard for propaganda. That's not to say that Democrats don't use propaganda, but Democratic Party propaganda at least shares a reality with the rest of the country and world and isn't in the process of manufacturing an entirely different reality.

I think this perception of alternate realities is something the Democrats are actually encouraging. It makes perfect political sense to cast the opposition party as completely out of touch with reality. It also perfectly complements the existing sentiment of "reality has a well known liberal bias".
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