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What it's like to be cancelled

noahbradley.com

131–140 of 613 posts

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't grope anyone and I'm not sure where you've heard that, but it's 100% false.

Actually while you're responding here, can you verify that you had these '48 laws of power' as your desktop? https://twitter.com/arvalis/status/1274765367957573632/photo...

> Noah Bradley fucking sucks. I have had him blocked for years and greatly dislike his online persona.

What a fucking psycho. Imagine hating someone so much as to spend multiple years connecting dots to ruin their life. It's as if A Beautiful Mind was about some neckbeard living in his basement.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for as creepy as Kevin Spacey is/was, all accounts of his cancelling are tossed out in court for lack of evidence, or pending his own lawsuits against these people. Netflix really did him dirty throwing him under the bus like they did as have many companies/schools/organizations simply on hearsay alone. It reminds me a lot of the movie Jagten with Mads Mickelson. A whole community despises you and vehemently wan…

> Netflix really did him dirty throwing him under the bus like they did as have many companies/schools/organizations simply on hearsay alone. Ehm... https://money.cnn.com/2017/11/02/media/house-of-cards-kevin-... . There were eight people working on the "House of Cards" who alleged/confirmed he was predatory. There is of course still a chance that it's one big witch hunt, but this is definitely not a case of 100 Twit…

...according to someone.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#133
post #19

I don't know the guy, and I don't know what happened. That's why I certainly don't want to side with anyone in this specific case. But boy, cancel culture and this whole social justice warrior crap makes me so glad that I moved away from the U.S. many years ago to saner parts of the world. Obviously that is going to get me downvoted to oblivion here on HN. But hey.

Why do you feel impervious to it because you do not live in the US? Cancel cultural is an internet phenomenon.

Getting a large shitstorm on the internet out of something is a global phenomenon, however, getting fired and blacklisted from future jobs because of an internet shitstorm (which to me is the key part that distinguishes 'cancel culture' from perfectly reasonable outrage or criticism) is not universal, companies reacting like that is much more pronounced in USA than elsewhere. In many parts of the world the exact same actions of an artist and internet reactions to them would not result in anywhere close to the consequences described in this article.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#134
Does anyone think it's any coincidence that the woke mob began cancelling people, and almost immediately it seems like every corporate entity in existence is "woke"?

Intimidation sadly works.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#136
post #105

I recently gave a test lecture about a topic in statistics, where I showed a meme that a statistics professor I follow shared on her Twitter feed [1]. I thought it would be safe to include as it didn't get any negative reactions on Twitter and was already being used by a professor in her university class in the US. After the talk I immediately got called out by the women's representative on the hiring commission, who…

Using memes in a lecture is risky, but was the women's representative herself outraged or outraged on behalf of the students?

[deleted]

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#137
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should everyone who has ever behaved inappropriately in that area lose their employment when their behavior comes to light? Does it matter if they've since stopped behaving like that? Where do you draw the line? Should they be excluded from productive society altogether if one instance of misbehavior can be found, at any time in the past? Is that best?

Surely that's up to their employers to decide. I don't think anyone should feel obliged to employ Noah Bradley just because you happen to think that his apology is sincere.

Your point well taken, but my issue is not so much that these companies decided to terminate his employment. I think that was cowardly and in essence caving to an imaginary mob, but let's leave that aside.

My contention is that this whole spiraled up from discovery of some bad behavior from the past, that seems to have been inflated into an exaggerated character assassination.

My contention with the grandparent comment is that "just don't be x" is not really an option if we are seeking redemption for past sins.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#138

Honestly, the biggest mistake people make is issuing public apologies. So far, we have very few examples of them actually working. On the contrary, any amount of admission seems to show weakness. The "controversy" around Lin-Manuel Miranda seems to have come nearly entirely from his apology to a very small group of disappointed fans. There are even more examples of very publicly terrible people who have skirted worse…

In the classical music world, there is a recent example of a composer getting canceled for a complete misinterpretation of an Instagram post. His publisher demanded he apologize, in fact, it provided a pre-written apology for him to just sign. He refused to do so, and his publisher dropped him entirely, which basically ended his career, at least for the time being. So, some people are compelled by employment reasons to apologize, and the apology does work in terms of keeping one’s job.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#139

It seems it's better to stay away entirely from certain sensitive topics. No matter your intentions, no matter what you actually think, it just takes a bit of misunderstanding or bad faith and the whole thing explode.

So it is better to kowtow to the mob and let them burn the village down? I agree that it is best to avoid it but that does not mean that this one-sided parade of outrage should be tolerated.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#140
post #13

I'm a bit sceptical about this because it talks very little about what happened that caused OP to get "cancelled", and an awful lot about how they came back from it. I do understand, first-hand, the trauma that comes from being cancelled (although I have like 1500 followers on Twitter so you could argue the stakes are less) and there's no doubt that it is a bitch. But there is something to take away from it - or at l…

> I really wish there was a bit more introspection into how you see your past behaviour in the light of being cancelled. I don't get this comment. The author says explicitly that he was an asshole in the past, that he changed who he was, and that he apologized privately to the people he had hurt. What more do you want?

I think this quote from the article is a good example:

>I don’t think I can fully describe the heart-wrenching pain of seeing your life & career crumbling around you and feeling utterly powerless to stop it. I thought I was fast approaching my inevitable and permanent end. I don’t cry often, but I cried a lot that night.

The author has harsh words for his previous behavior, but the question I have is about the sentiment at the center of his reflection on the experience: if he had agency in the attacks on him. I certainly believe that he does not think he does.

A lot of this comes down to deeply personal questions about how to address misbehavior and what we expect from other people. I do not know the details of what Noah did or what the people he mistreated want, but in his incomplete account I can certainly think of things that jump out to me.

- He says that no one has accused him of raping them. I personally know people who were raped and never accused their rapists. It was not worth the trouble or they did not have the social capital or they did not want to pursue law enforcement. How much introspection Noah should have depends a lot on the specifics but is it certainly not clearly enough to say that you didn't do something because no one accused you. That's not reflection.

- At the end of the day no one has an obligation to like you. It is not up to the perpetrator to decide what the appropriate restorative process is. We do not need a legal system to give us permission to dislike someone.

- He says, towards the end "If you’ve been cancelled and want someone to talk with who won’t shame or judge you, shoot me a message." I mean...I suppose I get what he means, but it seems hard to simultaneously put forth that your previous behavior was wrong and should be judged harshly and also that you will not judge others for their previous behavior. I am all for a path to restoration, but if I am to believe in reform I would like to see a more complex understanding than I get from this essay. I believe any real path to restoration must include judgement about past misdeeds.

I think about the Dan Harmon apology for the sexual harassment her perpetrated against a coworker[1]. It has its own flaws and, to a degree, I think it overly-centers Harmon, but one thing I think it gets very right is that Harmon made sure to apologize in a way that was accepted by his victims and was detailed about his misbehavior. He is clear-eyed about the way that he took advantage of his power, how selfish and small his motivations were, and how much damage he did to his victims. His apology feels merciless to his past self in a way that I do not see in Noah's account.

Now maybe Noah has fully satisfied his victims and they simply do not want to go public and ofc that changes my understanding of this situation. But I do not get the same unceasingly unsympathetic treatment of Noah's past behavior. He seems like he wants it to go away rather than make it part of his story and, I think, that approach feels less fully-engaged than others that I've seen.

Ultimately accounts like this, where we are all judging behavior of strangers we haven't meet in past events we did not experience, are always questionable. I don't feel certain at all about Noah. I also think it is easy to read this account of his experience and be uncertain about how he has changed. He mentions, at the start, that cancelling "those who are attempting to grow is such a counterproductive and potentially dangerous trend" - but I do not understand from this article how he is attempting to grow. Instead, I see a disagreement about how to deal with his past behavior.

[1] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/674/transcript

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