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Bored People Quit

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Re: Bored People Quit

#131

Post by billswift »

rcfox wrote: post #120
Lewisham wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I was overqualified for the actual job (by my own interpretation, and of the way it was advertised). I was overqualified for their interpretation of the job role. More specifically: I was the only full-time developer on a database which processed welfare payments for a smallish country, to the tune of hundreds of USD a year. This, I think, is not really the sort of system you would call trivial, nor one…

> This, I think, is not really the sort of system you would call trivial, nor one that the government would want a B or C grade student as the only full-time member on. While I sympathize with the rest of the story, I think you place too much weight on one's ability to jump through hoops to get grades. (Disclaimer: My marks were pretty bad, but I was also busy writing games/AIs, and getting into trouble for improving…

On the other hand, grades are a decent proxy for diligence on a job.

Re: Bored People Quit

#132

Post by Tsagadai »

dskhatri wrote: post #68

"I’m going to keep digging until you look me in the eye" Are you sure you want to do that to engineers? There's a joke that goes something like: How do you tell an introverted engineer from an extroverted one? The introverted engineer stares at his/her shoes when talking to you. The extroverted one stares at your shoes. I don't think it's a good idea to "keep digging until you look me in the eye".

I, personally, find it very difficult to sustain eye contact while I talk to people. The "I know your lying because you won't look me in the eye" myth was 90% of the reason I was always in trouble at school. It's a myth.

Re: Bored People Quit

#134

Post by munin »

eropple wrote: post #127
munin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in a perfect world, yes. but now you're relying on 2 competent, motivated people instead of 1 competent and motivated person. why rely on 2? why not just give the project manager the authority? is there something about their ability in this regard you don't trust? then, why are they a project manager? the success or failure of the project could impact the jobs of all of the members of the project, and potentially eve…

Project managers manage projects, not engineers. In many cases, project managers are stakeholders in the project. They have conflicted interests. Being able to tell your project manager "no" is important, because it allows engineers to arrest function and scope creep without fearing for their jobs by saying "no" to the wrong person. . Where I am right now, we report instead to technical managers, and are allotted to…

you have bigger problems if you can't say "no" to the guy who could fire you, in my opinion

Re: Bored People Quit

#135

Post by zackattack »

billswift wrote: post #131
rcfox wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This, I think, is not really the sort of system you would call trivial, nor one that the government would want a B or C grade student as the only full-time member on. While I sympathize with the rest of the story, I think you place too much weight on one's ability to jump through hoops to get grades. (Disclaimer: My marks were pretty bad, but I was also busy writing games/AIs, and getting into trouble for improving…

On the other hand, grades are a decent proxy for diligence on a job.

Is this useful up to a certain level of process-execution and then inversely useful?

Re: Bored People Quit

#136

Post by zackattack »

Tsagadai wrote: post #132
dskhatri wrote: post #68

"I’m going to keep digging until you look me in the eye" Are you sure you want to do that to engineers? There's a joke that goes something like: How do you tell an introverted engineer from an extroverted one? The introverted engineer stares at his/her shoes when talking to you. The extroverted one stares at your shoes. I don't think it's a good idea to "keep digging until you look me in the eye".

I, personally, find it very difficult to sustain eye contact while I talk to people. The "I know your lying because you won't look me in the eye" myth was 90% of the reason I was always in trouble at school. It's a myth.

This is interesting. Is it possible it's a truth and actually you're lying to yourself?

Re: Bored People Quit

#137

Post by ggchappell »

nostrademons wrote: post #129
ggchappell wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Axiom: Boring work can never compete with Hacker News. > Axiom: Hacker News can never compete with interesting work. I disagree[1] with your second axiom. HN, in limited quantities[2], counts as professional development, I would say. That means that limited HN usage is necessary , which certainly helps it "compete". If I were interviewing someone for a programming job, and I learned that they never read HN or SO or…

Interesting work will teach you far more than HN will. It's very easy to overestimate the amount of professional development you get from Internet websites, because at the end of a session, you can point to an article and say "I learned that". However, at the end of a project, you will very rarely be able to point to something and say "I learned that", but you will have unconsciously absorbed so many problem-solving…

Interesting work gets you in-depth knowledge of whatever you need for that specific job. Reading widely (e.g., HN, in small doses, and taken seriously) gets you breadth. I think we need both.

Re: Bored People Quit

#138

Post by lars512 »

alexgartrell wrote: post #12
edw519 wrote: post #5

Axiom: Boring work can never compete with Hacker News. Axiom: Hacker News can never compete with interesting work. Theorem: The interestingness of my work is inversely related to my Hacker News participation. Supporting data: Today I'm regression testing. I'll be here all day, folks. Idea: Employers, monitor your logs for Hacker News. Occasional spikes probably indicate boring, but necessary tasks. Chronic use probab…

Hacker news participation can also indicate compilation, as it does for me right now.

That's one of the legitimate reasons to switch to an interpreted language, or else Go. Unless you value your compilation off-time :)

Re: Bored People Quit

#139

Post by lars512 »

Tsagadai wrote: post #132
dskhatri wrote: post #68

"I’m going to keep digging until you look me in the eye" Are you sure you want to do that to engineers? There's a joke that goes something like: How do you tell an introverted engineer from an extroverted one? The introverted engineer stares at his/her shoes when talking to you. The extroverted one stares at your shoes. I don't think it's a good idea to "keep digging until you look me in the eye".

I, personally, find it very difficult to sustain eye contact while I talk to people. The "I know your lying because you won't look me in the eye" myth was 90% of the reason I was always in trouble at school. It's a myth.

Different cultures vary hugely as to how they use eye contact when talking, whether it's expected or whether it's intrusive. It's interesting to get the reminder that it also varies by individual.
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