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HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

reuters.com

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Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#131

Post by dankboys »

makeitdouble wrote: post #11
typeformer wrote: post #4

This is tragic, the US, Japan, Canada, GB, AUS, the EU need to band together to counter China’s egregious rights abuses instead of solely pursuing their own business and national interests. They could all offer residency programs for the bright students and others that are currently suffocating there. China can’t punish all these countries together. If no one stands up Taiwan will be next to fall and then China would…

In the current climate if the US doesn't move nobody will (or it will just be a "look at me" gesture) Why do I think so? Because the US accumulated that unprecedented power you refer to, and Japan or GB or Canada trying anything from themselves just means they'll be pissing in the wind until the US decides to do it as well. The EU seems to me the only exception to that, but then I am not sure its majority sees a big…

China are probably judging the chances of a US response based on the response when Assad breached POTUS’ red line: nothing.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#132

Post by cntrmmbrpsswrd »

_tik_ wrote: post #101
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

This happened under British Hong Kong too. The British never tolerate dissenting voice.The 1960 and 1967 protest, the British label it as Riot, end in violence too. I think Hong Kong can only be peaceful if they solve the huge inequality. The image of wealth and poverty living side by side is very dystopian.

The British tried to hold democratic elections during that time, but it was the Communist Party that pressured them not to. The riots you're talking about were Hong Kong Communist going against the British.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Hong_Kong_riots

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#133

Post by bennysomething »

_tik_ wrote: post #101
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

This happened under British Hong Kong too. The British never tolerate dissenting voice.The 1960 and 1967 protest, the British label it as Riot, end in violence too. I think Hong Kong can only be peaceful if they solve the huge inequality. The image of wealth and poverty living side by side is very dystopian.

This is just utter nonsense, and I say this as someone who grew up in northern Ireland. So you think HK will be better when it's more equal?

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#134

Post by digianarchist »

makeitdouble wrote: post #11
typeformer wrote: post #4

This is tragic, the US, Japan, Canada, GB, AUS, the EU need to band together to counter China’s egregious rights abuses instead of solely pursuing their own business and national interests. They could all offer residency programs for the bright students and others that are currently suffocating there. China can’t punish all these countries together. If no one stands up Taiwan will be next to fall and then China would…

In the current climate if the US doesn't move nobody will (or it will just be a "look at me" gesture) Why do I think so? Because the US accumulated that unprecedented power you refer to, and Japan or GB or Canada trying anything from themselves just means they'll be pissing in the wind until the US decides to do it as well. The EU seems to me the only exception to that, but then I am not sure its majority sees a big…

> GB already offers specific routes for HK residents to come over.

Canada too.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#135

Post by aw9f70gae »

phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

> freest laissez faire city state in the world

It's just so easy to idolize Hong Kong and ignore the severe failures in its socioeconomic system for the sake of critiquing China. Please do better.

cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/FD941A3D3003D8EA05ACE2C5A9C00110/S0305741000046828a.pdf/legacy_of_the_british_administration_of_hong_kong_a_view_from_hong_kong.pdf

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#136

Post by lwansbrough »

My hope is, just as it's commonplace for Chinese people to learn English, it becomes commonplace for Westerners to learn Mandarin. Only once we can communicate can we start to break through cultural and ideological barriers. It would be impossible to stop the flood of readily consumable Western Mandarin media and culture.

Unfortunately I think too many would see learning Mandarin as China winning a culture war, instead of seeing it as building a foundation for expropriating the CCP's control over Chinese ideology.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#137

Post by digianarchist »

ayngg wrote: post #55
Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #20

Hong Kong is dead, and the CCP killed it. Daily reminder that the Chinese Government should never ever be trusted. China agreed not to touch Hong Kong's system politically or economically until at least 2047. They couldn't manage even half of that, and there are now many Hong Kongers sitting in jail for the "crime" of supporting democracy in Hong Kong (not even China!), which was made illegal by the CCP under "nation…

The writing was on the wall well before it was even handed over. England was in no position to defend the island after the lease on the New Territories ended, nor are they capable of doing anything to prevent the CCP from slowly eroding institutions in Hong Kong now. Everyone else has little to no skin the game to risk anything significant. Their only hope was the belief that the economic development of China would u…

Britain failed to enact democratic reforms well before the handover [0]. Chris Patton and successive British governments are partly to blame [1].

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Plan_(Hong_Kong)

[1] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/28/i-should-have-...

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#138

Post by Bayart »

jjcc wrote: post #112
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

Any idea that this happened only recently? There are already raids earlier along with other punishment. Without new provocation, this one seems totally unnecessary. A reasonable interpretation about this raid, based on the timing and some knowledge about China and CPP, would be: this is a response to G7's recent communique. But I bet not many people get the message because with some existing ideology that people usua…

I have the same take a you do. Those implicit signals make sense in a Chinese cultural context but are much harder for the non initiated to pick on. This being said, State actors in the West have their analysts and certainly know what's afoot, cue the official response from the EU and Britain. But the general public can't parse it, which is important in democracies.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#139

Post by Bayart »

xwolfi wrote: post #39
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

While I agree, as a current resident, I also witnessed the insane destructive behavior of Apple Daily, who did exagerate quite a bit the situation and was far from a neutral observer. I'd even say that telling kids the police murdered 2000 people was not exactly helping them strategize rather than throw themselves in desperate waves at the police... These guys all pushed the situation towards a point of no return for…

>These guys all pushed the situation towards a point of no return for the communists

Ah yes, the victim left absolute no choice to the aggressor than to punch them in the face ! What sort of logic is that ?

You don't arrest bad journalists, just like you don't burn bad books or censor bad movies out of the excuse that they're bad. On first principles, the nature of things is more important than their subjective value.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#140

Post by sterlind »

aw9f70gae wrote: post #135
phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

> freest laissez faire city state in the world It's just so easy to idolize Hong Kong and ignore the severe failures in its socioeconomic system for the sake of critiquing China. Please do better. cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/FD941A3D3003D8EA05ACE2C5A9C00110/S0305741000046828a.pdf/legacy_of_the_british_administration_of_hong_kong_a_view_from_hong_kong.pdf

From your article:

> The dark side of colonialism is also manifested glaringly in what many people still regard as the British betrayal of the long-term interests of the Hong Kong people in the 1982-84 sovereignty retrocession negotiations and in the subsequent British appeasement of PRC infringements of, and non- compliance with, the Joint Declaration, especially on democratization and the formation of the Court of Final Appeal.

well that turned out exactly as predicted! your paper did indeed lay valid criticism on the British for abandoning HK to the PRC, not doing enough to safeguard the Joint Declaration and make sure China kept its promises on civil rights and autonomy, and foretold the disemboweling of its constitution and freedoms by the mainland.

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