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“Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

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Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#131

Post by Isthatablackgsd »

res0nat0r wrote: post #90
63 wrote: post #21

Is there greater context here that helps explain what's going on? Reading the comments in the thread didn't clarify much for me as someone unfamiliar with NixOS, their apparently unique Python packaging scheme, and Home Assistant.

He just doesn't want anything of his included in nixpkgs because he doesn't want to deal with anyone opening Github issues against his repos if there happen to be build / installation issues that are coming from some kind of failure in the nixpkgs install / build process.

Also they offered various options to appease the author including code forking and the author rejected them all. Basically the team exhausted all of their options to make this author happy but the author seem not to understand the reality of FOSS. This author shouldn't be in the FOSS if the author is going to roadblock every options despite his licensing explicitly allows including the codes.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#132

Post by tzs »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #28
bitwize wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open source is a contract with your audience that the code can be used freely. Not in common-law jurisdictions, where an open source license without consideration is a bare license and can be revoked at will by the licensor.

The license can only be revoked ex nunc presumably? Do you have a reference or, more preferably, casserole to share on this point?

> Do you have a reference or, more preferably, casserole to share on this point?

Are you by any chance a Firefox user and you have auto-correct enabled?

I'm guessing that because of "casserole", which is what Firefox corrects to if you accidentally double the 's' in 'caselaw'. Chrome goes for "casual", and Safari goes for "caselaw".

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#133

Post by toxik »

esens wrote: post #57
blueblob wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the author so I can only speculate. He's anticipating that they will be distributing an out-of-date package and it's simply another place that has to be synchronized. He's saying that there isn't actually a need to host it elsewhere as it can be installed via pip through pypy (his preferred host) which will have up-to-date code. He doesn't want to get bug reports for outdated code.

This is incredibly legitimate reason. Could these repacking be replaced with some type of just proxy/clone that is still the original source?

NixOS doesn’t work like that apparently. The point is to be reproducible.

Honestly sounds like they just cannot have his project or anything that depends on it.

Luckily that ambee code looks trivial to duplicate.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#134

Post by Latty »

munk-a wrote: post #110
Latty wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they offered to fork it completely to avoid the issue and he rejected that, it really just looks bad. I get being done with something when you've had a bad experience, but the maintainers here went to every effort to accommodate, and did so in a friendly way. It reads like this guy wanted a fight and an excuse. I think the correct answer is to just make the fork as proposed and use that instead, it solves the pr…

From what I can see in the thread (and I'm not very familiar with the tech so I'm working off of inference here) it looks like the library fetching tool is well equipped to fetch the freshest branch from his repository directly. His responses are very minimal but it sounds like he's objecting to older versions of his library being bundled in and causing breakages on the client side - forking would potentially just ma…

It seems to me he states pretty clearly that his issue is the support burden, not some paternalism over users:

> If users experiencing issues with the ambee library in this package, they will knock on my door. And I'm not willing to support that or accept that burden. Especially as I don't see a good repacking reason in this case.

I absolutely agree that there is a legitimate reason to say "look, I can't handle the support burden from this", but users aren't going to track down the original project to make support requests if you fork it, rename it and point everything to the new one.

(Obviously you might get one or two, but anyone that motivated would probably be making their own package and run into the exact same issue anyway, at some point you can't really blame the package).

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#135

Post by f311a »

kissgyorgy wrote: post #101
f311a wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not related to this particular issue though.

You don't understand the issue then. The author don't want to deal with all kinds of requests unrelated to his own package. NixOS is an operating system, totally understandable he doesn't want to deal with OS issues.

Why would users report to his project when installing Home Assistant? That's not usually how it works and Home Assistant has a lot of other dependencies.

His library was written specifically for Home Assistant and it's an internal dependency that no one usually sees. It's a 300 lines wrapper for Ambee API.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#136

Post by CodesInChaos »

eganist wrote: post #50
elmerfud wrote: post #8

Seems like an author that doesn't understand the spirit of FOSS. The nixos team was clearly allowed to use it and include it when asking for some technical merits as to why, and even offering many alternative options to appease the author the author seemed to just childishly stamp their feet and say, "because I said so". Eventually the author took the position of "taking my ball and going home". Why is a person like…

It seems like the reason is (paraphrasing) "because I can't meet the resulting burden of support." which is something I haven't really seen anything in the open source world manage, though that might be because I'm not much of a contributor. What happens if a utility explodes in usage and the author can no longer effectively support it as a result of being buried in overhead? Are there any mechanisms for limiting how…

It's not about popularity. Distributions often ship outdated or modified code, link it against unsupported versions of dependencies, etc. When this causes problems users will contact or blame the author of the code, instead of the distribution which broke it.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#137

Post by hughrr »

eganist wrote: post #50
elmerfud wrote: post #8

Seems like an author that doesn't understand the spirit of FOSS. The nixos team was clearly allowed to use it and include it when asking for some technical merits as to why, and even offering many alternative options to appease the author the author seemed to just childishly stamp their feet and say, "because I said so". Eventually the author took the position of "taking my ball and going home". Why is a person like…

It seems like the reason is (paraphrasing) "because I can't meet the resulting burden of support." which is something I haven't really seen anything in the open source world manage, though that might be because I'm not much of a contributor. What happens if a utility explodes in usage and the author can no longer effectively support it as a result of being buried in overhead? Are there any mechanisms for limiting how…

At least he’s up front honest. Most people just get shitty with you when you volunteer PRs for their project or ignore you I find.

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#138

Post by braza »

I agree with the point that this is a FOSS, but as author I would be terrified if some downstream users started some mobbing me [1] due to upstream changes as we saw in the FastAPI Pydantic meltdown [2].

[1] - https://twitter.com/ChristianHeimes/status/13828152605586554... [2] - https://github.com/samuelcolvin/pydantic/issues/2678#issueco...

Re: “Please don't add any of my stuff to this project”

#140

Post by whateveracct »

kissgyorgy wrote: post #101
f311a wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not related to this particular issue though.

You don't understand the issue then. The author don't want to deal with all kinds of requests unrelated to his own package. NixOS is an operating system, totally understandable he doesn't want to deal with OS issues.

But people on NixOS may use his software...if not in nixpkgs then someone will just maintain their own overlay that many people use. It's impossible to stop - if there's demand by NixOS users for this software, they're gonna package it up and patch it in order to keep Nix Nix..

Hell, I could go make that overlay right now and link it in a nixpkgs issue for discoverability. What's this frenk person gonna do? Cut me an issue saying "pls delete this code from the internet"? Hah!

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