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Sorry everybody, I failed with you

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Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#131
post #18

Of course it's terrible to become burnt out and it feels awful not having enough time to work on an open source project that you love. But, is it just me or has it become rarer for open source project maintainers to feel free to let projects go? I don't mean to let them die, I mean, to find like-minded individuals to which you can defer some or all of the work? I realize that as the original author one feels a sense…

> But, is it just me or has it become rarer for open source project maintainers to feel free to let projects go? I think it has always been rare. I generally avoid projects which are under a person's own github account because to me it is a massive red flag that they will kill the project by failing to maintain it and failing to hand it over at some point in time. When you build a project the most important part is t…

In an ideal world you're right. But most people don't create projects expecting -- or even wanting -- huge success.

1. Sometimes people create a project for themselves but use Github as a convenient place to store the code. I've done that before and found people filing issues against those projects.

2. Sometimes people create a project to scratch a personal itch and put it online in case it helps anyone else. Not in the sense of hoping people will use it but rather than in the "I bought 10 bottles of wine and only drank 9. Help yourselves to the last bottle" sense.

Maybe there should be (maybe there already is) a software license that should better explain the "wrote this for myself. You're free to use it but don't expect support".

3. Some people probably do hope that their project has some, maybe even just small, degree of success but they host in their own user profile because their Github profile is their CV and they're starting new projects in the hope of landing better jobs.

This 3rd group are a particular problem for open source. Not in the sense that they're doing anything wrong -- they're clearly not. But in the sense that you end up with a lot of NIH since the primary reason for a project existing is to boost the CV. So when the primary maintainer moves on, any future contributors will prefer to build their own solution rather for their own CV rather than taking over maintenance of the existing project.

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It should also be noted that not all projects are large enough to warrant their own Github org. Take BurntSushi's stuff. I'd wager the percentage of HN developers who use BurntSushi's code is in the double figures. But there'd be no sense in every one of his projects being it's own org.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#132

Of course it's terrible to become burnt out and it feels awful not having enough time to work on an open source project that you love. But, is it just me or has it become rarer for open source project maintainers to feel free to let projects go? I don't mean to let them die, I mean, to find like-minded individuals to which you can defer some or all of the work? I realize that as the original author one feels a sense…

Is this just a function of how long it takes to recreate ~80% of the functionality?

It doesn't matter if it takes half a decade to implement the last 20% of the feature set and iron out all of the bugs and corner cases, if you can bang out a prototype in a long weekend, someone is going to do that over and over. Meanwhile, if it takes nearly a year just to get something half-working, the existing open source codebase has to be pretty bad for you to not at least fork it.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#133
This is kind of sad to read, that someone building and maintaining a free product feels compelled to over apologize for want burning out.

It may just be my cynical view of the world but it just seems like more and more people are demanding higher and higher levels of service for things that they don’t pay much if anything for.

I play a game right now that is in Beta called Dual Universe. Some people paid for Kickstarter packages 5-6 years ago for around 40 bucks. The game has its areas for improvement to be sure, but some of the players are just horrible and abusive to the community. I know they paid 40 bucks for a vision some years back and maybe DU has overproduced a bit, but the abuse of the 40 or so staff that is trying to build an amazing game where you can build anything you can dream of with voxels is just unrealistic.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#134
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a defective culture meme, because the modern ecosystem is moving fast. We're using to thinking about digital creations as if they're forever. This is incorrect. Software without a platform doesn't run. Platforms are always changing, and sometimes platforms die and get replaced with other ones. Think of software like a living being, not like a statue etched in stone (although even statues etched in stone degr…

You could almost say it was a Cambrian explosion of sorts? It’s 2012 all over again: “churn makes things better! BTW, what should we be using this week?”

I’d say it’s forever 1997. Netscape had a server side JavaScript platform in 1997.

People still build 3 tier apps, and web farms. It’s eternal 1997.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#135

Seeing a lot of posts like this. Open source is wonderful in its way, but it's really not sustainable to work on projects that make money for other people - including big commercial interests - when they don't help out in any fashion. I'm not just talking money or contributions. I'm talking about simple acknowledgement: "we use project X" - even privately. A open source library that I worked on at Intel (the Hypersca…

I feel like Github and co could do a LOT more to help open source project maintainers and contributors rewarded.

They can offer a new subscription model for people with expendable income and companies with benefits, on a per user basis instead of a per project one.

They can offer monetizing issues, e.g. promoting a question or issue report with an X amount of currency.

OS maintainers can create a bot that asks people to contribute financially or to reach out to their employer to do so.

Github can push their sponsors program more, and aim it at companies / "enterprise" sponsors.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#136

Seeing a lot of posts like this. Open source is wonderful in its way, but it's really not sustainable to work on projects that make money for other people - including big commercial interests - when they don't help out in any fashion. I'm not just talking money or contributions. I'm talking about simple acknowledgement: "we use project X" - even privately. A open source library that I worked on at Intel (the Hypersca…

Totally agree! That's why I want to help open source maintainers monetize the ecosystem they have built. The first step: Sell add-on products/plugins/tools with a super easy Checkout paywall: https://basetools.io

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#137

Seeing a lot of posts like this. Open source is wonderful in its way, but it's really not sustainable to work on projects that make money for other people - including big commercial interests - when they don't help out in any fashion. I'm not just talking money or contributions. I'm talking about simple acknowledgement: "we use project X" - even privately. A open source library that I worked on at Intel (the Hypersca…

Feels like a great opportunity for Github or another website to have these sort of analytics. Seems like quite the complicated task tho. Start small?

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#138
I can empathise with the author completely here. This exact thing happened to me in the last couple of years (albeit with a much smaller user base than in this case).

I maintained a set of Visual Studio Code builds for the Raspberry Pi and for Chromebooks.

Unfortunately life happens to us all, and due to similar reasons of mental health (and a few family matters that couldn’t wait) I fell well behind on responding to issues on GitHub and merging patches.

It’s hard to know you’re letting people down, especially when it was something you put out there for them that they’ve come to depend on.

In my case my project eventually became obsolete due to a combination of direct vendor support from Microsoft for ARM, and because of Linux for Chromebooks.

In the end I wasn’t upset to move on from the project, I was just relieved that I was able to stop and still point the users back to something officially supported so they wouldn’t be abandoned.

I’m glad Pedro’s doing better, but I really hope for his sake he’s returning to work on this because he wants to and not out of a sense of obligation - his health is way more important than a few feature requests. It looks like a great project, he should be rightly proud of his work here.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#139
post #115

Seeing a lot of posts like this. Open source is wonderful in its way, but it's really not sustainable to work on projects that make money for other people - including big commercial interests - when they don't help out in any fashion. I'm not just talking money or contributions. I'm talking about simple acknowledgement: "we use project X" - even privately. A open source library that I worked on at Intel (the Hypersca…

I agree. I've been working on a Go library for 8 years now that I'm sure is used by quite some people and companies, and I've been close to burnout and letting it go at least twice. I'm super happy when people just "Buy me a coffee"--not for the coffee but for the feedback you get that someone is using your project, so it's valuable for someone. I'm very grateful for that, even without financial support. I think GitH…

There are a lot of facets to open source contributions. One big facet is the whole itch-scratching thing. If you know longer itch, stop scratching. That's ok. Maybe when you stop scratching, it will start to itch again for you or for someone else. If nobody steps up, it just means it doesn't itch enough.

Abandonware is not such a bad thing. It served its purpose for a season, then the world moved on. Nobody's out there trying to breath life into the Apollo program. Or into Mosaic. And that's ok. It doesn't diminish how awesome they were at the time.

Re: Sorry everybody, I failed with you

#140
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need law changes to ensure that open source can be sustainable and companies pay the fair share of revenue they make by using it. We don't need more laws. There is something called a License Agreement. However if you publish your stuff on GPL and other permissive licenses you can't really complain about Amazon, Google and Microsoft making millions on your code while you beg for donations on your Github page.

> We don't need more laws. There is something called a License Agreement. We just need UBI.

How would UBI help software developers pay for their libraries? They are already among the most highly paid professionals.
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