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The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

lawfareblog.com

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Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#131

Post by easrng »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #62

Indeed, it is rather simple, all the founders and idealists of btc have been something like technology supremacist and do not want any government interventions infringing on their business matters. They need to pretend how this is legal and a technology achievement to obfuscate the real purpose. These are, founders getting rich, money laundering(called anonymous transactions), exchange of illegal goods( how many peop…

Bitcoin is not anonymous and should not be used for illegal purchases as it is trivial to trace. Use Monero if you care about privacy.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#132

Post by mam3 »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

Independently of how you or I feel about it, crypro enables anonymous payment.

This is a feature of anonymous payment not a bug.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#133

Post by Zednivat »

emodendroket wrote: post #47
J5892 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is that sometimes progress comes with a cost. Whether or not you consider cryptocurrencies "progress" is irrelevant, because it's an emerging technology that exists whether you (or I) like it or not. The cold, hard, unavoidable truth is this: Ransomware may be a Bitcoin problem, and it may not be. Either way, tough shit.

> Whether or not you consider cryptocurrencies "progress" is irrelevant I mean not really. If we were to decide, as a country, that it was bad, we could take actions to stop its proliferation. The dollar-BTC transition points are chokepoints we could easily target to get started.

I just want to be sure we're on the same page. Is the full version of that: "If we were to decide, as a country, that it was bad, we could assign new orders to our federal, state, and local law enforcements officers to target and violate the property rights of people who engage with cryptocurrencies"?

In order to solve the ransomware problem, we create a new problem in the use of violence or the threat of violence in order to stop anyone from using crypto at all.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#135

Post by zarzavat »

thehappypm wrote: post #82
Miner49er wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you'll ever be able to fully ban cryptocurrency. Also, I'm not even sure ransomware is a net bad thing in the first place. It encourages better security and makes companies less likely to store my private information.

If the G7 banned crypto trading, even if ransomware hackers wanted to be paid in crypto, companies would be unable to do so without breaking the law, which would be untenable. The bottom would fall out. Yes, people in other countries could do it, but without major economies pumping in value, they're more of a curiosity. Which, maybe would be better.

You don't need to ban crypto trading for that, you can just criminalize paying ransoms.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#136

Post by JoeyBananas »

tptacek wrote: post #22
Dah00n wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a cryptocurrency advocate but as arberx points out in another comment this is avoiding the real problem. The problem isn't cryptocurrency or ransomware. The root cause is what needs to be fixed: Software publishers and software owners are to blame for insecure systems. Software development is like the wild west with absolutely no accountability. This need to change.

There is no evidence at all that computer science and information technology actually knows how to solve the underlying security problems without forcing untenable compromises on the economy. We can produce secure software, but only at a level of expense and time that would preclude most commercial software development.

This is just a terrible argument. Often times, systems are compromised through social engineering so it's not even remotely possible to solve this issue by software engineering alone. But more importantly, think about the morality of what you are saying. It is absolutely not ethical to rob someone just because they are an easy target.

I despise this sort of "technological nihilism." Just because something can be done with technology doesn't mean that it should be done. The fact that bitcoin exists does not mean we should revert back to the stone age. Anarchy is obviously a very bad idea, but I guess some people are determined to learn this lesson the hard way.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#137

Post by akiselev »

Dah00n wrote: post #15
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

I'm not a cryptocurrency advocate but as arberx points out in another comment this is avoiding the real problem. The problem isn't cryptocurrency or ransomware. The root cause is what needs to be fixed: Software publishers and software owners are to blame for insecure systems. Software development is like the wild west with absolutely no accountability. This need to change.

Ransomware isn't the only illegal activity that's greatly enabled by bitcoin. For better or worse, it has enabled stable online marketplaces that allowed one to buy safer/purer drugs, heavy weaponry, assassins, and false passports with less exposure and risk. That used to be the stuff of spy movies - now it's available to anyone who understands how to navigate the web enough to figure out onion addresses or FreeNet. IIUC it has even enabled new methods for money laundering with unique advantages and allowed nations to evade global sanctions with near impunity instead of having to rely on foreign powers to help.

I don't wish to speculate whether the effect on each of those niches is net positive or negative, but it's hard to argue that the real problem is cybersecurity when cryptocurrencies have had such significant effects on other fields for the same reasons that it's useful to ransomware operators. Yes, cybersecurity is a real problem, but that doesn't preclude cryptocurrencies from being a real problem either, nor does it preclude the former from sparking action against the latter - the world operates in parallel and we can tackle multiple problems (which means yes, cryptocurrencies will almost certainly be used as a distraction).

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#138

Post by SigmundA »

Dah00n wrote: post #15
SavantIdiot wrote: post #3

I'd like to hear how cryptocurrency advocates address this without deploying a fallacy. Cryptocurrency makes ransomware possible, without the former, the latter cannot thrive. The defenses I usually hear come in the form of "current banking facilitates bad stuff, too," which is a fact, but doesn't absolve cryptocurrencies central role in ransomware. As the article states, there is simply no way to pay a ransom withou…

I'm not a cryptocurrency advocate but as arberx points out in another comment this is avoiding the real problem. The problem isn't cryptocurrency or ransomware. The root cause is what needs to be fixed: Software publishers and software owners are to blame for insecure systems. Software development is like the wild west with absolutely no accountability. This need to change.

To me this is like saying we shouldn't make it hard to make money off stolen goods or even police the streets, the problem is my houses security isn't good enough. We should just focus on making houses more secure otherwise its open game and your fault if someone steals from you.

You know police in many states in the US get uploads of all pawn records and metal recycling to help track down and stop thieves from making money on stolen goods.

There isn't one root cause, there is an environment made up of multiple factors that allows bad behavior, one contributing factor is how cryptocurrency has enabled large ransom payments to bad actors over seas.

Software should be made more secure, but making it 100% secure is impossible. How much time and money should be spent on the software security side? My house isn't made like a fortress, its security is actually pretty minimal, it doesn't need to be better because laws are enforced and its not anarchy outside, its a low crime environment due to multiple levels of protection I don't even think about or manage directly all provided by the government. Part of those protections is making it more difficult for criminals to profit off crimes, though not impossible, it's just one aspect of a defense in depth.

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#139

Post by tedunangst »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #125
thehappypm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I deeply disagree that crypto is the easiest way to make online payments. Have you ever used Venmo? Or even Facebook pay? Or Zelle? Sure, it might be the easiest way to send money cross-border, but that's an edge case, the vast, vast majority of transactions are same-country.

Crypto is definitely the easiest way. No accounts (well I suppose a wallet could be an account, so perhaps a wash here), no bank linking, no credit cards. Crypto is the closest thing to internet cash payments.

How do companies pay ransoms without bank accounts? Where does the Bitcoin come from?

Re: The Ransomware Problem Is a Bitcoin Problem

#140

Post by emodendroket »

Zednivat wrote: post #133
emodendroket wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether or not you consider cryptocurrencies "progress" is irrelevant I mean not really. If we were to decide, as a country, that it was bad, we could take actions to stop its proliferation. The dollar-BTC transition points are chokepoints we could easily target to get started.

I just want to be sure we're on the same page. Is the full version of that: "If we were to decide, as a country, that it was bad, we could assign new orders to our federal, state, and local law enforcements officers to target and violate the property rights of people who engage with cryptocurrencies"? In order to solve the ransomware problem, we create a new problem in the use of violence or the threat of violence in…

Yeah, I'm not an anarchist, so I am indeed advocating that the state use its power to achieve societal benefits, which is ultimately, one might say, backed by its monopoly on the use of violence. Property rights are not and should not be absolute.
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