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Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

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Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.

Don't forget Covid/SARS-Cov-2 is only 6 months older than the vaccines: Nov-2019 vs Apr-2020. Every bit of data that we have today about the safety profile of the vaccines vs Covid indicates that for the majority of people vaccines are orders of magnitude (think 100-10000x) safer than Covid. Even when they aren't, e.g. children or AZ & young women, we are talking about super small risks similar to an average car ride…

No, there are data that says that the vaccines may be the same as COVID, or worse because the virus is not that dangerous for young people.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#132
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you "trust the science", it'll give you immunity, and you don't need to worry about me at all. Me getting vaccinated protects more than just me. It protects, for example, those who cannot get vaccinated by limiting the spread of a disease. Your perspective could be (perhaps slightly unfairly) summarized as 'your child has leukemia and caught a cold from me, well that's THEIR problem not mine' I do not understand…

> Watching the anti-COVID vaccine folks has helped me realize this isn't about medicine or science or understanding...its about selfishness. It really is about science because the vaccines have not been approved for general use yet. All they have is an Emergency Use Authorization. Edit: Also, we don't know the long-term effects of these vaccines. Those could be far worse than the virus. For people who are not vulnera…

'it really is about the science'

so what is your education level regarding interpreting vaccine trials data?

it really is about the liberty...which really is about the selfishness...I may disagree with your perspective but my bigger problem is that you won't own it.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are downvoted. Health officials in US have done a phenomenal job showing how incompetent they were during this crisis. From initial downplay, then the mask fiasco, then trying to covering up the lab leak hypothesis, and of course politicizing the vaccine release timeline, they have blood on their hands. Then to say we need to blindly trust them on what they are saying on safety profile of the vaccine…

Maybe because saying "Adequate testing takes about a decade" is kinda BS - maybe in poster's opinion that's what "adequate" means. Realistically, the vaccine just has to be safer than getting Covid and it's long-term effects. Because we've seen in most Western nations that not getting Covid doesn't work in general. > I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore It's a shame some of their mistakes have eroded trus…

> With all due respect, the lab leak hypothesis does not change the fact Covid exists now

It would though, in Jan 2020. When it was almost equivalent to xenophobia. When everyone was told travel was no biggie. And everyone should hang in NYC because the preparedness is so high. What does it say about those experts who espoused these bs? I remember Anthony Fauci publicly saying in news conference there is no way this is a lab leak and it has to be a natural virus. If a year later now it seems the were not being honest to public (intentionally or not), what makes you think a year from now they won't reverse course on vaccine?

> how a vaccine rollout better than Europe (so far) means they have blood on their hands.

You don't think US wouldn't have a better response if this was not an election year in 2020? I remember the tone around vaccine suddenly changing post election from "I will use it when Drs say it is safe" to "if you don't take vaccine you are a bigot".

> the safety profile of some vaccines (Pfizer/BioNTech) seems very good (compared to AZ, which is still not bad)

Sure "seems good", it is like saying safety profile of this code I am going to be using in production that will be tested on billions of people "seems fine" so let's go ahead and if anything happens we will be on the "same boat as millions of other people" as you said.

My hypothesis around this is this - countries that have been successful the most in controlling the virus i.e. China have the lowest vaccination number too. So what makes you think we are smarter than them when we did an awful job managing the virus?

> Shit does sometimes happen, and often it's out of our control.

This is the point though. Shit happened and it was within our control. There were multiple mis-steps from health officials and media from the get go with outright downplay to being completely wrong (about masks and other things) and politicizing. And there were no recourse. No introspection. No apologies. The NYC health commissioner who said their preparedness was very high is still there. No one had any accountability.

Hell there are still 700+ people dying in US everyday, do you hear those CNN panelists outraged about those deaths? No, we have moved on. It's all about channeling the narrative. The political war has been won and that''s all that mattered in an election year. People's lives were secondary.

And we still are supposed to trust blindly the same group of people?

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's certainly a possibility if safety really is a concern. But I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of person travelling the world. That is incredibly mean-spirited. And exactly what I have come to expect. I am fully vaccinated: measles, rubella, all the rest. I will not get the COVID shot. I never…

Mainstream: I agree. We are reasonable, independent-minded Americans who are rightly skeptical of a highly experimental new.. Ohio couples vaccine jabs with a lottery Mainstream: Hot damn I like them odds!

Public health workers have known for a long time that low health literacy is a huge problem. People will keep getting into preventable accidents and abusing drugs. All you can do is to make the facts and medical tools widely available to those who want to use them.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because saying "Adequate testing takes about a decade" is kinda BS - maybe in poster's opinion that's what "adequate" means. Realistically, the vaccine just has to be safer than getting Covid and it's long-term effects. Because we've seen in most Western nations that not getting Covid doesn't work in general. > I will never trust US Health Authorities anymore It's a shame some of their mistakes have eroded trus…

If we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines, we don't know if they are actually better than COVID and its long-term effects.

that's true, but also not useful if you're dead.

luckily, there are a few vaccines to choose from, and we do understand how the vaccines work in general. but if you don't trust mRNA vaccines, adenovirus vaccines are very well understood.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#137
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If more states ban covid-passports, I wonder if the EU would rather not have tourists than allow visitations. That's certainly a possibility if safety really is a concern. But I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of person travelling the world. I don't think that others, who want to travel the world r…

> The whole principle that you need to prove vaccination to be let into a country is not really new. Exactly. Necessary and recommended vaccinations are one of the first things to check when planning a trip to destinations in Africa, South East Asia etc.

I have travelled South East Asia for several years and never been asked to show any proof.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If more states ban covid-passports, I wonder if the EU would rather not have tourists than allow visitations. That's certainly a possibility if safety really is a concern. But I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of person travelling the world. I don't think that others, who want to travel the world r…

> I'd wager that the average American anti Covid fanatic (the sort: Masks are fascism! It's like what the nazis did with the jews!) is not really the kind of person travelling the world. I think this may vary by destination. I have no data (not sure if such data exists) but, anecdotally, living in Ireland, I get the impression that many do travel here at least. It may be that different destinations hold different dra…

I would love to see a fight between anti and pro covid fanatics.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of said side effects your concerned about? As far as I'm aware most of the vaccine side effects should have popped up by now, and if you're talking long term then we can't possibly know the side effects of any medication because you can always move out the goalpost another decade. The liberty being discussed here is to go to another country - that's never been an unrestrained freedom you had an…

Long-term side effects don't pop up right away, so no, I can't say what side effects I am worried about. However, I think a decade is about the right amount of time to watch. I am not talking about a non-existent liberty. I am talking about "my body, my choice." If we decide that taking an experimental vaccine should be necessary for free and unrestricted travel across borders, what's to stop governments from impleme…

I guess we're not worried about the long term effect of the virus either? Planning on avoiding getting infected for the next 10y so that we can learn more about it as well?

Especially ironic if it ends up that the virus was escaped from a lab.

Re: Swiss Covid Certificate – Technical documentation of the swiss Covid certificate

#140
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-term side effects don't pop up right away, so no, I can't say what side effects I am worried about. However, I think a decade is about the right amount of time to watch. I am not talking about a non-existent liberty. I am talking about "my body, my choice." If we decide that taking an experimental vaccine should be necessary for free and unrestricted travel across borders, what's to stop governments from impleme…

I guess we're not worried about the long term effect of the virus either? Planning on avoiding getting infected for the next 10y so that we can learn more about it as well? Especially ironic if it ends up that the virus was escaped from a lab.

There is a chance that I will not get the virus at all.
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