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Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

thebigtech.substack.com

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Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#131

Post by nirvdrum »

ladyanita22 wrote: post #88
toast0 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft actually had a winning formula. Make cheap phones that work alright. And they were getting market share with later wp7 and throughout wp8. Between wp8 and WM10, they merged the phone team with the regular OS team, and eliminated (or at least gutted) their QA teams, and they decided to target the high end market only . There were no low spec WM10 phones, and there hadn't been many high end buyers anyway, so…

Yeah, Microsoft had an exceptional OS that was competitive to iOS (and much better than Android) on its foundations and APIs. It had everything needed to succeed and get a big chunk of the market, except for a clear leadership. Now, here we are, with extremely powerful Android phones that do little because they don't have a solid software foundation with which to build good software, an iOS has all the high-quality s…

We just retired a Lumia 950 XL in my household. It's an all around better experience than Android in my experience, but there wasn't much point in continuing to push the boulder up the hill. And I liked the ability to pop in a micro SD card, which Apple doesn't support.

From my vantage point, Google did everything it could to kill off Windows phone. There was the big spat over YouTube, where Google wouldn't write a native YouTube client and banned Microsoft's. Google bought SoftCard (I think?) and subsequently killed off NFC payments for Windows phones. When they bought Waze, they ceased all development for Windows mobile, allowing that application to atrophy.

There were certainly a lot of other reasons Windows mobile had difficulty. Not the least of which is developers didn't want to have to manage apps for yet another platform. It looked to me like Microsoft was making good strides there, nonetheless, with some nice tooling. I don't use more than ten apps with any regularity and there were solutions for each of them on Windows mobile, at least.

But, rather than make its apps available everywhere its users were, Google used its market position to starve a competitor. And it wasn't merely a case of deciding not to build apps for it. They took active actions to try to kill off Windows mobile before it had a chance to grow. I see no reason to believe they wouldn't do it with any other new entry. We're just stuck with a duopoly now.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#132

Post by ecshafer »

oauea wrote: post #94
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some of the none sketchy reasons for "everyone" wanting us to use their apps. Like for major companies, where the service is deliverable through a website, what benefits does the user get from an app? I can see why GPS based apps, or camera apps with filters, or networking apps 'need' to be installed apps (I don't know if an easy way to do GPS through a browser; speed and fast access to storage) ... but Amaz…

Easy access to push notifications (which can be sketchy, but doesn't have to be) and believe it or not: Letting users put a shortcut on their homescreen. Sure, you can place a shortcut to a PWA in the Chrome browser but most users won't be configuring that, even if you guide them through it.

These seem like reason that help the business, not the user. Are there any legitimate reason that help improve the user's experience for having an app? I can see this for some games and things that native access is usable. but a shortcut to the homescreen and push notifications are mostly an annoyance for users.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#133

Post by ThrowawayB7 »

toast0 wrote: post #85
spoonjim wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook realized that no amount of money was going to will a third mobile OS into existence. cf. Microsoft.

Microsoft actually had a winning formula. Make cheap phones that work alright. And they were getting market share with later wp7 and throughout wp8. Between wp8 and WM10, they merged the phone team with the regular OS team, and eliminated (or at least gutted) their QA teams, and they decided to target the high end market only . There were no low spec WM10 phones, and there hadn't been many high end buyers anyway, so…

IIRC Microsoft didn't eliminate their QA teams until after Windows Phone 10 was mostly dead.

Regarding apps, bear in mind that Google went out of their way to prevent Youtube and their other services from working on Windows Phone, e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/appsblog/2013/aug/15/... . There's nothing that Microsoft could've done to overcome that much of a disadvantage and anti-competitive scrutiny of Google hadn't gotten underway yet.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#134

Post by prox »

mrtksn wrote: post #119
jfengel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, what are they? Every time I get pointed at an app, I can only think of https://xkcd.com/1174/

A few out of my head: 1) Shortcut on the homescreen by simply tapping 1 button(install) instead of hoping that the user will somehow remember you. WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. 2) Sign in once with a forever session. I hate apps where I need to sign in again because having an App is a great opportunity to have one time sign in that runs through generations of phone upgrades. Even better, the sign in doesn't ha…

Only 5 is really a legitimate reason, all the other things can be done on par with a website.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#135

Post by Vrondi »

beagle3 wrote: post #121
mrtksn wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few out of my head: 1) Shortcut on the homescreen by simply tapping 1 button(install) instead of hoping that the user will somehow remember you. WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. 2) Sign in once with a forever session. I hate apps where I need to sign in again because having an App is a great opportunity to have one time sign in that runs through generations of phone upgrades. Even better, the sign in doesn't ha…

6) notifications. Though, (1) is wrong on iPhone; there’s an “add to home screen” action in the share menu.

This exists on Android browsers as well (and has for years).

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#136

Post by grishka »

speeder wrote: post #5

Whenever I read articles like this, I get more and more horrified. I mean, I know that adtech spy on us a lot, but I didn't knew for example that using Bluetooth while the app is shut down was possible. Makes me very wary even of dumbphones, for example I bought a dumbphone recently, and yet it came with Facebook and Google Assistant both pre-installed.

> I didn't knew for example that using Bluetooth while the app is shut down was possible.

On modern Android versions, there's some serious limitations on apps running in the background at all. In most cases, if you want your app to run in the background, you gotta put up a notification that is displayed the whole time that background service is running.

Oh and also. Scanning for bluetooth devices is a fairly battery-consuming activity as far as I can tell.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#137

Post by cardosof »

Duralias wrote: post #107
cardosof wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's what happens when you start late. Everyone else has their moats in place and you either 1) start from scratch at hardware level and develop a new phone from the ground up - electronics, OS, utility apps, dev tools or 2) focus on creating the next platform. Both are really high cost, complex, multi-year bets with lots of moving parts and no real hint of consumer adoption/market size until way after the…

What would the "killer app" even be, you make it sound like it should be very obvious what it would be, but even knowing exactly what it should be, a killer app is still just luck and the right timing. The only app that I could imagine bringing mainstream appeal would be a Ready Player One Oasis kind of thing (I've only seen movie, not read the book), but seeing and testing all the social vr apps we have now, the Oas…

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, my point is exactly the opposite: since we know commercial VR for quite some time and there's no killer app yet, maybe there won't be a killer app at all unless technology improves so much it'll look like magic (like Ready Player One).

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#138

Post by grishka »

arcanus wrote: post #2

Corporate warfare in the internet age. Interesting to see how Apple and Google can materially impact FB.

Google certainly won't copy Apple here because being able to track the hell out of you is very important for their own business model. Apple can afford that because they sell hardware and services but not data.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#139

Post by hakfoo »

motoboi wrote: post #81
akmarinov wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR's probably not going to be bigger or even equivalent to mobile, so they should've tried harder.

I personally believe VR and mainly AR are the next and natural step in personal computing. Ubiquitous computing may be the next step from there. Something like “the world is the computer and you just interact with it”.

It feels like VR is 5 years away forever.

Realistically, I feel like there are two near-intractible problems for widescale consumer adoption.

1. The space problem. For some experiences, yeah, you can sit in a chair and wear a helmet, but I'd expect many of the more compelling immersive experiences would involve flailing your arms and moving around. That's a recipe for disaster inside a small apartment without dedicated space-- you're gonna trip on something or break something. I seem to recall some designs for an "omnidirectional treadmill" to keep someone contained while giving them more room to roam, but that's a whole different thing to design and perfect.

2. The motion-sickness problem. I'm not sure if tracking will improve to the point where this isn't the factor it is now, but I'd expect some people are going to always have issues because of an conflicting sensory experiences-- the helmet says you're being blasted into hyperspace, but your stomach and legs say you're standing still.

Re: Google’s new popup will further weaken Facebook’s advertisement business

#140

Post by mrtksn »

beagle3 wrote: post #121
mrtksn wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few out of my head: 1) Shortcut on the homescreen by simply tapping 1 button(install) instead of hoping that the user will somehow remember you. WebApp shortcuts are quite involved. 2) Sign in once with a forever session. I hate apps where I need to sign in again because having an App is a great opportunity to have one time sign in that runs through generations of phone upgrades. Even better, the sign in doesn't ha…

6) notifications. Though, (1) is wrong on iPhone; there’s an “add to home screen” action in the share menu.

>Though, (1) is wrong on iPhone; there’s an “add to home screen” action in the share menu.

As I said:

>WebApp shortcuts are quite involved.

Most people don't know about that functionality, you need to teach them. It would have been cool if Apple supported that, then I guess everyone would have been trying trick you into it like the good old days where every website was trying to trick you into making it you start page.

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