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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#131

Post by mumblemumble »

_ea1k wrote: post #105
mumblemumble wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google probably didn't do any real calculus, and I strongly doubt it was anything like a principled decision. They probably just realized that it simply wasn't an option. Android lacks the vertical integration that iOS has. It would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, for Google to get Android licensees to accept such a heavily walled garden. Remember that this decision was made over a decade ago, back…

IDK, AT&T used to lock out third party apps on their Android phones. It didn't go over well and was eventually reversed. I think they stayed in that state for a few years, though.

It's probably better to think of that as AT&T trying to continue the thing they were already doing with feature phones, than as Google trying to make Android as locked down as iOS is.

For starters, it's something AT&T did with just the phones they were selling, not something Google did with the Android platform or Android phone makers like LG and Samsung did with their phones.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#132

Post by jolux »

floatboth wrote: post #126
jolux wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realize SpiderMonkey was W^X compliant. Does that mean Apple's arguments about third party browser security on iOS are less well-founded than I had believed? My impression was that performant JITs were incompatible with W^X.

This Dolphin article is literally about making a performant JIT run on an OS that is, among other things, strictly W^X :) > arguments about third party browser security on iOS Well, W^X is just one mitigation technique. But also, the "security" arguments have always been kinda dubious. I don't think there's that much difference (at least philosophically) between an interpreter bug causing arbitrary crap to happen ins…

As the sibling comment mentions, apparently the iOS restriction is that you cannot execute pages that have ever been marked as writable, which is much stricter than W^X.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#133

Post by zepto »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #107
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

>openness at the expense of security This is a false dilemma. You can have both.

Although I totally think open source should attempt to produce an ecosystem with the security of Apple’s ecosystem, there is no evidence that this is even theoretically possible.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#134

Post by kalleboo »

api wrote: post #47
threeseed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary. It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers. This nails it. I want full control and the ability to run anything on my computer. I want my phone to "just work" and I never want to fuck with it or worry about what's on it. They are different devices with different roles. What I do wish for is open ARM hardware with similar performance. I am totally certain that it is coming now that Apple has…

> The M1 can be duplicated if not exceeded

The obvious question is why has Qualcomm failed so hard at even keeping up with the A series? They're untouchable for radio stuff but their CPUs are very average. Samsung are also trying very hard with average results.

The M1 isn't Apple's first crack at this that is some fluke which will quickly be overtaken by someone else. Everyone else has already been in a race to beat their A-series chips and failed miserably. The M1 is just the first time we've been able to benchmark it on a real OS. If someone beats it, it will be AMD retooling their cores and doing it in 3-5 years (Zen was originally battling an ARM variant internally at AMD)

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#135

Post by my123 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #111
my123 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's used as part of Gatekeeper for software downloaded from the internet. See https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin... for the notarisation process and https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202491 for the customer-facing documentation, which includes how to work around it when needed. Gatekeeper can be totally disabled via sudo spctl --master-disable.

I see. That's a pretty developer-hostile measure. Luckily, I don't intend to ever ship any software to Macs, so it's not a problem to me. If I did want to ship a Mac version of any tool I'd write, I'd pretty hesitant to jump through Apple's hoops, so I can understand why developers don't want to notarize their stuff.

For Windows, distribution without signing isn't exactly painless either, and the signing certificates for that are quite expensive.

And there, it's not even deterministic, see https://www.digicert.com/dc/blog/ms-smartscreen-application-...

The goal of the system is to authenticate which developer made a given piece of software, to be able to track the spread of malware. An option is always given for a user to opt-out.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#136

Post by zepto »

bombcar wrote: post #109
realusername wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you got a used phone or tablet though? Are you just supposed to throw it away to the trash and get another one because the manufacturer doesn't approve you using it? And what about devices which aren't supported anymore?

I think an interesting attack on this loophole would be a law that requires that the relevant signing keys/bootloader access be opened 1-3 years after official support for the hardware ends. Sure this would complicate things a bit (Apple would have to have different keys for different hardware revisions), but it would allow devices to be "officially" jailbroken after support ends.

I would support opening it as soon as the first unsupported software release is made available.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#137

Post by gjsman-1000 »

tw04 wrote: post #129
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do that, guess what Fortnite would do right now. Guess what Facebook would do to get around Apple’s privacy restrictions right now. Guess what a ex-boyfriend would do right now to install a blocked spying app. For better or worse, the App Store being the exclusive way into the iPhone forces third parties to deal. Otherwise, they just tell the user to make the choice for them. If you even listen to interviews w…

>If you do that, guess what Fortnite would do right now. Guess what Facebook would do to get around Apple’s privacy restrictions right now. Guess what a ex-boyfriend would do right now to install a blocked spying app. I guess I don't get your point, if a user wants to sideload fortnite or facebook, good for them? If an ex-boyfriend has your phone and your password you've probably got bigger issues than whether or not…

I’m saying that if you add that choice, it isn’t that technical users have more freedom and that’s bad. It’s that Apple users become pawns in a chess game against other tech Giants, who don’t want to follow Apple‘s rules whether it be for privacy, IAP, or other reasons.

Like I said with Facebook. If there was a private API that Apple doesn’t allow them to use that would make tracking users easier, they would happily force users to sideload so that they could use it. Smaller companies would not have the power to force users to sideload, so they would have to follow Apple rules while tech giants would not.

At this point, for better or worse, what started as sideloading has destroyed the App Store.

Lastly, as for why anyone would go for the trouble, are you really sure that some government agency wouldn’t force users to sideload an app someday? If it had to go through Apple approval, there would be a much bigger legal fight than if they could just force people to sideload it. There are other reasons than just ex-boyfriends, I’m just trying to come up with some examples.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#138

Post by zepto »

caddybox wrote: post #70
threeseed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. I think they might just survive without your business. And pretty sure it demonstrates that their formula of security and privacy over openness is the right one for them.

> Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. > I think they might just survive without your business. The parent post makes some the argument that the restrictive nature of iOS makes it unappealing to certain users. You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. Not everything that makes billions of dollars is immune to criticism. Especially since Apple markets the iPad…

The term ‘computer’ has not historically made reference to ‘unrestricted’ in any way, and the early history is rife with examples of restrictive licenses and hardware.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#139

Post by zepto »

derekjhunt wrote: post #113
threeseed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. I think they might just survive without your business. And pretty sure it demonstrates that their formula of security and privacy over openness is the right one for them.

Source on this please. I'm skeptical that they sell enough iPads to equal half of all clothing sold on the planet, or they have a larger market or 20% of movies or gaming worldwide.

Please don’t ask for sources on things you can easily Google.

It looks like you are trying to discredit the poster or accuse them of dishonesty without adding new information to the thread.

If they are wrong, you can trivially demonstrate that with a link of your own.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#140

Post by GeekyBear »

smichel17 wrote: post #96
shsizbz wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im posting this comment on an iPhone SE (1st gen) I got in mid 2016. I still get OS updates, not just security patches. Whats that about Apple waste? Its people that waste and drive waste. Id love it if I could load my own OS and do whatever on this little phone, but only if iOS itself was still locked up. I dont need to add even more worry about the safety of my “phone” (really portfolio of everything Ive done since…

Many years ago, Apple removed all apps for the 1st gen iPod touch from the app store, with no warning. I found out about this when I did a factory reset (ironically, this was to un-jailbreak my iPod touch, since the jailbreak slowed it down a little and I wasn't using any of its features). Imagine my surprise and frustration when all the apps I was using moments before - Spotify, Fruit Ninja, Opera Mini (the only bro…

>How to download old versions of apps from the App Store

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/02/08/how-to-download-o...

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