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Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

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Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#131
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's legal to discriminate based on geographic location.

Not if the woke crowd gets their way. They got a guy fired from AAPL because they felt "unsafe" due to a book he wrote 6 years ago where he called some SF women useless in a zombie apocalypse. Feeling "threatened" or "violated" by not being able to apply to a job seems just as reasonable.

Literally yesterday, conservatives pressured AP into firing someone because of her social media history [1]. If you want to take that stance, at least stop pretending it’s a “woke” issue.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Emily-Wilder-Associa...

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#132
post #73
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been taught in school that perfect competition ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition ) requires perfect information ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_information ), so I assume giving more information would increase competition. Could you share why this is anti-competitive?

Competition doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the amount of information. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/competition

Merriam-webster, the height of technical excellency. We should all strive to educate ourselves using this indubitable resource.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#133

Curious how wide the salary ranges can be. Are there ways companies can just provide a wide range and get away?

This is exactly what's happening and how a few companies are getting around it, specifically big consulting companies.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#134
post #86
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't matter what his role is. Saying some off the cuff stuff a few years ago in an obscure book doesn't make a workplace unsafe. That is disingenuous. I've seen people fired for similar "unsafe" bullshit. Literally anything can trigger these deranged individuals. They're just out to play victim and get attention. And no, I don't think all toxic workplace behaviour is like this, many places have narcissists an…

“ They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel.” so this is ok because he’s saying they’re only useless in an apocalyptic scenario? he’s literally saying that the core of women is useless…

If I recall, the context was that he was dating a woman who was a bit of a tomboy and saying how cool it was that she was better at power tools and such than he was, and this comparison to typical SF tech women was part of that extended riff. It wasn't part of an incel monologue about 'femoids' or something.

Ultimately, if we let this continue, it becomes a war on flavor and humor, where no rhetorical fun is allowed lest someone take it the wrong way.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#135

A competitive market would enable me to sort by salary and benefits and apply for the best job. However companies don't want to compete on salary, and potentialy drive them up - they want maximum leverage. They get more leverage if process is obscure, so that you only agree salary late in the process and for the applicant, pulling out is risky. The market is not really free - its being manipulated by one side. Simila…

> A competitive market would enable me to sort by salary and benefits and apply for the best job.

I am always surprised to see comments that make it sound like jobs (or, employees) are fungible commodities that can be bought and sold purely on price.

One simple example - two jobs may have the same title (Senior Developer, or whatever) but have totally different expectations of communication skills, leadership skills, ability to handle pressure, etc and would pay very differently. So you (and everyone else) would be tempted to apply for the top-paying job but potentially not be qualified.

Or the situation where a company is very flexible on who they hire and thus would pay a lot more or a lot less depending on what the individual brings to the table.

In a way, I think there's a bit of "you don't know what you don't know" principle at play here. If someone has limited perspective on how career development, seniority, and hiring work, they may really believe that the big problem is "I can't sort my opportunities by salary." Someone with more experience and understanding may recognize how non-fungible people and roles can be in a way that a simple "sort by price" cannot capture.

To use your real-estate analogy, would you ever buy a house that came up first in a price-sort? No, you'd both want to really understand the nuances of the house (location, condition, etc.) and how it compares to your needs and your ability to pay. IE, you'd often take "not the best price" because either there's something wrong with the property or it's just not suitable to your needs." Hiring is much the same.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>With housing (in UK) there is no competition on quality because the seller doesn't have to disclose any problems with the house. If it falls of a cliff the minute you sign on the dotted line, it's your problem. I'm in the UK and that's absolutely not true. If you think the owner knew about the problem and purposefully omitted telling you, then you definitely have a court case and any law firm worth their salt will…

In sane countries the seller must comission a survey and provide it to the buyer. The UK system where each buyer comissions a survey is absurd. I do not understand how the mortgage helps you - you are still paying for it, and if the survey uncovers issues, you either take mortgage on a house with problems, or you are out of pocket. If you pull out, and next house you view has issues too, you have to take it because a…

That's not sane, it's crazy! As a buyer why would I trust a surveyor selected by the seller? I would rather pay inspector myself for an independent opinion. In the US this only costs a few hundred dollars for a typical house, which is a tiny fraction of the overall transaction price.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#137

The law also requires that Colorado employees be informed of all promotional opportunities. A promotional opportunity is "a vacancy in an existing or new position that could be considered a promotion for one or more employees in terms of compensation, benefits, status, duties, or access to further advancement." If a company doesn't already have Colorado employees, they may not be interested in having a remote employe…

Who says the CO remote employee requires special treatment? That would be a terrible leadership decision. The easy and obvious approach would be to treat all employees under the CO standard. It’s as simple as posting all open positions internally. Or even sending a firm-wide email when a new position is posted externally. I have a hard time believing most companies aren’t already doing this with the exception maybe o…

Yeah, I don't quite get the rub here. The corporations I've worked for always post jobs internally first and normally they email the entire org with open positions. In general I've found most corporations want to hire internally since it's cheaper overall.

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me. You're not expecting, quote, "basic decency." You are expecting compliance with a specific regulatory framework. One of these requires a soul, the other requires lawyers and paperwork and record-keeping.

The is nothing profitable a corporate bureaucracy won't do out of 'basic decency' Before we had 'spesific regulatory framework' companies enslaved people, exploited children, commercialised rape and commited serial murder to break up unions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

I am having trouble reconciling your assertions, in which you seem to think HN should expect "basic decency" from corporations while simultaneously asserting that "'basic decency'" has never actually served as a meaningful barrier. It seems to me that the later statement rather undermines the original.

Maybe "basic decency" is a very bad phrase to describe things here, and we should just leave it out. It's probably useful as invective, and if one is already predisposed to sympathize with the point, can galvanize one to action, but it serves poorly as a tool to actually communicate.

I propose that if we avoid it, we can talk meaningfully about how the company finds it more convenient to avoid business than comply with regulatory burdens without the distraction of moralizing the matter, and draw conclusions about whether the passage of the law was wise under these particular circumstances, or what circumstances or structure might have made it better, and the like.

Perhaps your vintage-1921 blue-collar labor dispute is more of a distraction than a help, as well :)

Re: Companies excluding Coloradans from remote jobs to avoid sharing salary ranges

#139
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite common. Corporations know the long game and are willing to pay in the short term to get it. Another example is those grocery stores that closed last year after hazard pay was mandated at the height of the pandemic, citing unprofitability. Unprofitability! Of a grocery store, one of like three places where people were spending money in 2020!

Volume doesn’t matter if your margins are negative. Grocery stores typically run on very slim margins (3% or less) so it’s pretty reasonable to think that raising employee pay significantly would make them lose money.

Maybe I'm not thinking about this right, but if they are getting way more business because of the pandemic and their costs have more or less stayed put, it's practically impossible that their revenue hasn't gone up considerably. Despite thin margins on their product, if they sell more of it they should be making more money (eliding some growing pains which should be surmountable). In that light, I have to say I kind of doubt their margins would be negative if they offered more pay during the pandemic.
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