FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#131

Post by ryanlol » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

periheli0n wrote: post #20

nurgasemetey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand one thing. Why Germany didn't interfere extradiction? (I assume that he held Germany citizenship)

Because Schmitz was in New Zealand at the time. Not much Germany can do to overturn NZ law. Germany is not the US after all…

Germany could interfere if they wanted to, Kimble just isn’t worth the trouble (few people would be).

There are things you can do, see how Russia is handling these things when their VIPs are targeted for extradition.

Ordinary citizens with no high up political or IC connections never receive any significant state aid in extradition cases no matter what passport they hold. At best your embassy might refer you to a lawyer or help you arrange money transfer from your home country.

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#132

Post by f311a » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

cblconfederate wrote: post #86

f311a wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She lives in Russia and attends some local events. There is no reason to hide if you don’t travel outside of Russia.

In Kazakhstan

No, she lives in Russia. She also studied in Russia and tried to get Russian citizenship in 2016.

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#133

Post by ehsankia » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

vaylian wrote: post #42

xNeil wrote: post #32

I'm not sure I understand the concept of paid access to scientific research, so I'd be grateful if someone with more knowledge of the topic could explain it to me. Governments fund universities, people donate large amounts of money to universities, and a large portion of the population has student debt because of how expensive tuition is. Why are they charging for access to research at these institutions then?

You are completely right that the current system is nonsense. It only exists, because back in the day there was no internet. Scientists needed publishers that would print and distribute scientific results. But publishers might deny publication in their journals if they thought the science is not good enough. Thereby the publishers established a reputation system. For example, it is really hard to get a scientific pap…

But even compared to other publishing, like books. From my experience books sell for less (both paperback and e-book), and also a significant chunk of it goes to the author. Do scientist get any of the profit from paper sales?

Also, as you mention, newcomers need the reputation given to them by journal, but I don't understand how this is a stable system. In theory, well established scientists, who give the journals its reputation, should be able to easily migrate to an open journal, and therefore make the whole system collapse, no? Do these large publication have any sort of deal to give big researchers on their journals?

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#134

Post by periheli0n » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #127

whatever1 wrote: post #67

Where can I file for my damages as a reviewer? I have lost more than 2000 hours reviewing papers for for-profit publishers and they never gave me a single penny. edit: Heck many of them they did not even give me free access to their journal to check references from the papers I was reviewing for them. I had to rely on SciHub to do so.

Why did you volunteer you time for these for-profit entities? Couldn’t you refuse?

Reviews are being done for peers and the (mostly unpaid) editors, not for the publisher. It's academic service for the scientific community.

Although it's the publisher who ultimately creates profit from the work.

However, would reviewers be paid, then the publisher would certainly charge the authors for this. No gain.

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#135

Post by ehsankia » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

slimsag wrote: post #14

Sounds like she's been in hiding since 2015[0]: > Following a 2015 lawsuit brought in the US by the publisher Elsevier, Elbakyan remains in hiding due to the risk of extradition; Elsevier was granted an injunction against her and $15 million in damages. Elbakyan and Sci-Hub were again involved in a US lawsuit in 2017, this time with the American Chemical Society. ACS sued the site for copyright and trademark violatio…

> In 2016, Nature included her in their top ten people that mattered in science list

Heh

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#136

Post by 13415 » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #108

13415 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's how it has evolved. Journals with good reputations have been taken over gradually since the 1970s by a few larger publishing companies such as Springer, Oxford Journals, Wiley, etc. There are only very few independent journals left in my area. I think it's similar to what the record industry did with record labels. Large publishers did this by luring the journal editors in chief with "free" offers of all kind su…

In a way, you are lucky if the journal has outsourced typesetting to some low-quality shop. Some for-profit publishers demand that the unpaid editors do all the copyediting, proofreading, and typesetting, and just provide the publisher with a camera-ready PDF. The for-profit publisher no longer provides any of the added value it once did. (Only distribution is left, and that isn’t a big deal, because even old-school…

I know, I have myself provided camera-ready copies set in LaTeX to for-profit publishers - all of this for free, done in my spare time. I was referring to the end-control of the typsetting, which they still provide, and if it's only in the form of outdated LaTeX templates.

Sometimes it's crazy how incompetent reputable publishers are in academic publishing. The for-profit publisher of my forthcoming book has agreed to accept a LaTeX manuscript. It's written and almost camera-ready. But now they told me they don't really know how this works yet, and so the typesetter has to "open it and convert it" to something else, which will be "time-consuming." After three years, they suddenly changed their mind and want me to provide the manuscript in Word!

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#137

Post by periheli0n » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #33

kingsuper20 wrote: post #27

Given the provenance of most (all?) of the material on Sci-Hub, the copyright issues here seem laughable to me. Fruitless speculation about the FBI aside, you do have to wonder about the future of IP generally in the world. There's a sort of evolutionary pressure going on right now between different countries' approach to the matter and I can't say that the US-style rules will hold (or more realistically, be imposed)…

It seems so absolutely obvious that a jurisdiction adopting a "there is no such thing as IP" approach will have a huge advantage. What's the reason this hasn't happened?

IP was created to incentivize innovation and publication thereof. No point in publicising innovation when everyone can just go copy it. Some innovations will be kept secret forever, some will never happen.

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#138

Post by periheli0n » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

I don't really get this whole frenzy about copyrighted papers. Why not just ask the authors for a copy? Most will happily share.

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#139

Post by lrhegeba » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

shill4humanity wrote: post #120

staticman2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. If I murder someone while visiting another country it makes sense I'd face justice in the foreign country, where all the witnesses are. Especially if the legal systems are similar. It becomes more of an issue where one country doesn't trust the legal system of another country.

Brings up a memory of a recent event of an American DUI murder in the UK and leaving before their untrustworthy legal system kicked in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

Re: FBI subpoenaed Apple for data of Sci-Hub founder

#140

Post by setr » Sat, May 08, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #129

setr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think prestige is a very unfair characterization. It’s my belief that most people just want their research to be seen and engaged with by their peers (it is, of course, the fundamental purpose of producing a paper). Universities however want prestige, and enforce the policy “publish or perish”. The problem is still as you say — the only way to do so reliably is to give up your ownership to a prestigious journal (be…

> It’s my belief that most people just want their research to be seen and engaged with by their peers (it is, of course, the fundamental purpose of producing a paper). Universities however want prestige, and enforce the policy “publish or perish”. The two are one and the same. What you call "Universities" is simply "professors at the universities". Department policies for tenure are set by a bunch of professors. The…

Sure there is. Developers have very different goals and responsibilities than their managers (regardless of whether they were once developers themselves).

The dean serves a different master than the researching/teaching professor. It would be absurd to assume their incentives and goals are always the same, or even aligned.