Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property • Hacker News Board

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#131

Post by bluGill » Thu, May 06, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

ChemSpider wrote: post #79

akie wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these interesting theoretical arguments while people are dying in droves... India was EXPORTING vaccine to the UK until not so very long ago. Maybe they don't have the capacity to produce the mRNA vaccines, but they most certainly have the capacity to produce viral vector vaccines such as AstraZeneca or Johnson & Johnson. I strongly believe it is our moral duty to buy-out or invalidate the IP of (at the very leas…

But how will waiving the IP help India to produce more? They already have all the licenses they need. It is a resource constraint, not a license/IP issue. If US/UK would finally allow vaccine exports like the EU does, _that_ would help India.

The US is finally allowing vaccine exports. The ban lifted May 1. It will take time to ramp up though.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#132

Post by mbg721 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

haswell wrote: post #130

CountDrewku wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fox news is the only "giant" media corporation promoting the conservative side and there are several individuals there that praise Biden. Everything else is left to far left, including our education system and the largest corporations in this country. So, take your own advice and stop promoting this false narrative that there's negative Biden coverage anywhere near the amount that Trump had. It's absolutely obvious t…

Let us not forget the climate that Trump created for himself. Much of that constant negative coverage was more about his antics and absurdities, and at some point, it became impossible for him to do/say much of anything without completely deserved backlash. With that said, I can’t claim there is no media bias re: Biden, but we should not pretend that the circumstances are even close to similar.

That only happened because conservatives gave up trying to please a hostile audience. Reagan was Satan incarnate, until 20 years later, when he was a voice of reason compared to Dubya. Rinse and repeat.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#133

Post by sschueller » Thu, May 06, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

throwaway4good wrote: post #98

apexalpha wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US put an export ban on basically everything regarding vaccines, very early on. If you look at the amount of vaccines produced , the US and EU are fairly close to each other. The difference in Vaccine rollout comes from the fact that the EU exports vaccines to other countries while the US does not. As a European I would've been in favour of more export controls, but a total ban seems to go too far. Why should 18…

The EU approached the vaccine production with hopeless naivete while the UK and US approached it like they were at war. Biden speaks in a nicer manner but he is still doing the policies of Trump's America First. IMHO we in Europe should return the favour and start working with the Chinese on vaccine production. They are the only ones with an industrial capacity comparable to the US.

The US and UK approach it as if they are at war with everyone else. It is very sad to see where their priorities really are when this is a global issue not separated by borders.

The resulting chip shortage and the state which India is in will also affect the US and UK even if they don't think it will.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#134

Post by jollybean » Thu, May 06, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #129

jollybean wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening up the IP is a 'win' for almost everyone but the companies making vaccines, so there's not much downside. Exporting individual vaccines might break contracts, and because it's a little bit zero-sum, the public at large may hold him in contempt for not putting 'America first'.

Biden would 100% be against it if it was an American company that held the patents. He'd say that we shouldn't throw the company that worked so hard to provide us with a vaccine under the buss just to save money. Removing the patent doesn't save more people, just as many vaccines would get produced, it just shifts money from the company to the state that pays for the vaccine.

I share your cynicism, but it actually will change the vaccine equation.

Money and risk is a very material part of the equation, now that the dynamics have changed, a lot more speculative money will be available. Supply and Demand works on cash just as it does for other things.

Also I don't think it has a populist aspect.

Exporting 'already made vaccines' does have a populist risk - a lot of Americans may 'get really mad!' if the US is seen to be exporting vaccines to other places before the US is fully vaccinated, irrespective of whether their chagrin is misplaced or not, the news cycle populism may have a field day with that. And there's the contractual stuff which he cannot 'waive'.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#135

Post by lordloki » Thu, May 06, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

machinebun wrote: post #124

miked85 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all gave Trump the benefit of the doubt. Seriously? Nothing of the sort happened. There was constant negative media and calls for impeachment immediately.

Let me remind you, in case you forgot, that the Muslim ban EO happened 7 days into Trump's tenure (as well as shithole countries remark). That's about all the "chance" I was prepared to give. If that's how you lead foreign policy 7 days in, you don't deserve to be president. Full stop.

By "Muslim ban" you mean the travel restrictions of on citizens of the seven countries that Barak Obama also had restrictions on? It wasn't a muslim ban as nowhere in the language or practice did it ban muslims form entering the US. It restricted entry from people from seven countries that were listed by the Obama administration as having high rates of terrorist links. Hillary Clinton would likely have taken the same step if she had become president.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#136

Post by sjm » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

It's ridiculous in the first place that BioNTech received almost half a billion in public funding specifically to develop the vaccine and yet own 100% of the rights privately.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#137

Post by snovv_crash » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #106

snovv_crash wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it requires specialized machinery and ingredients which are difficult to scale on short notice.

> difficult to scale on short notice Will it be a big deal in the long term then?

Nope, nothing particularly exotic in the raw materials. It's mostly a time issue, complex equipment can't be replicated overnight.

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#138

Post by username90 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #134

username90 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biden would 100% be against it if it was an American company that held the patents. He'd say that we shouldn't throw the company that worked so hard to provide us with a vaccine under the buss just to save money. Removing the patent doesn't save more people, just as many vaccines would get produced, it just shifts money from the company to the state that pays for the vaccine.

I share your cynicism, but it actually will change the vaccine equation. Money and risk is a very material part of the equation, now that the dynamics have changed, a lot more speculative money will be available. Supply and Demand works on cash just as it does for other things. Also I don't think it has a populist aspect. Exporting 'already made vaccines' does have a populist risk - a lot of Americans may 'get really…

USA has the means to produce a lot of it, Europe had the means to develop it. Doesn't make sense that USA gets to enjoy all the benefits of producing without giving Europe any credit for developing it. Why should EU share its research with USA in the future if USA doesn't want to reciprocate?

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#139

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

_y5hn wrote: post #85

apexalpha wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must sting that the (arguably) only successful thing to come out of this America First policy is now being credited to the Biden administration. For all the mess Biden has inherited, he also inherited a near perfect vaccine production program. The reversals issued in the first 100 days did not reverse any export bans or regulations the Trump admin put in place for the vaccine production and rollout.

The vaccine program was failing to rollout when Biden inherited it.

[deleted]

Re: Covid: US backs waiver on vaccine intellectual property

#140

Post by thehappypm » Thu, May 06, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #133

throwaway4good wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU approached the vaccine production with hopeless naivete while the UK and US approached it like they were at war. Biden speaks in a nicer manner but he is still doing the policies of Trump's America First. IMHO we in Europe should return the favour and start working with the Chinese on vaccine production. They are the only ones with an industrial capacity comparable to the US.

The US and UK approach it as if they are at war with everyone else. It is very sad to see where their priorities really are when this is a global issue not separated by borders. The resulting chip shortage and the state which India is in will also affect the US and UK even if they don't think it will.

The West has a deep obligation to end the pandemic globally, but it also has every right to end the pandemic at home first. Israel, the US, and the UK are acting like they're at war against the pandemic, and finally, they're winning.