Live data from Hacker News

What nobody says about startup moms

femfosec.com

131–140 of 292 posts

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#131

It strikes me that there is some kind of cognitive dissonance that prevents people from recognizing their time as a commodity. I understand and support the push to normalize women in the workplace in leadership positions but there seems to be a failure to recognize the cost. I think the "traditional" family roles of mother stays home and father works are outdated but I think the train goes off the tracks when people…

Ill take it a step further: I think child rearing is incredibly difficult if both parents are entirely focused on their careers and view them as their top priority.

I think it works out much better if one of the parents is much more low key about their career and can shift focus away from it more easily when emergencies / etc happen.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#132
post #92
post #54

One of the biggest issue with all this is "We lost the community in the pursuit of individuality". It takes a village to raise a child. I grew up in kind a commune. Most of the days kids would be on the streets playing, eat / sleep in their neighbours house. Moms were able to manage house as stay at home moms (hardest yet under-appreciated job) relatively better because of this community care provided for children. E…

Cities dwellers lose out on such things Depends on the environment. I grew up in a city, but your first paragraph matches my childhood pretty well. Our neighborhood was a cluster of short, twisty streets, with narrow roads and broad sidewalks. Our street had about 40 houses/apartments (mixed zone), and at least 10 of those had school-going children. In my street, I was one of the oldest so I mostly played with a few…

I live in the suburbs, and that lifestyle is more or less impossible for my children. Everything is a car-drive away, which means that everyone drives which means that cars are everywhere. It's the opposite of a virtuous circle.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#133
post #54

One of the biggest issue with all this is "We lost the community in the pursuit of individuality". It takes a village to raise a child. I grew up in kind a commune. Most of the days kids would be on the streets playing, eat / sleep in their neighbours house. Moms were able to manage house as stay at home moms (hardest yet under-appreciated job) relatively better because of this community care provided for children. E…

>>Cities dwellers lose out on such things.

I think this is true only in certain Western countries. I was born and raised in Turkey, and was an apartment dweller until I moved to the US for college. Growing up, I knew all the neighbors in our four or five story apartment complexes, and I knew their kids. So did my parents. And the community aspect was pretty strong — when my parents both had to work late, I just headed over to one of the neighbor's condos and played video games with their kids, and sometimes stayed well past dinner.

In the US though I have trouble envisioning such apartment communities. Maybe they exist, but based on my own living in apartments in America myself, the experience is a lot more... sterile and cold.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#134
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One parent serves as redundancy for the other. I don’t know how you did it, but when we had just one baby/toddler, and no other kids or relatives to watch them, one adult is constantly watching the kid, and the other is taking care of household tasks. The person watching the kid looks like they have spare time, but it’s garbage time because your attention is diverted to the kid every couple minutes or less.

For us it’s me “mostly” working - supporting our existing clients, taking care of investments (sometimes trading a bit), shopping, cooking (taking turns in this one). She is mostly with the kid and when he is sleeping, she does cleaning and other chores. Also sometimes I look after him and she works for clients (when she is more suitable) The company is definitely not progressing. At best we are able to stand still.…

Ah, that makes much more sense, in that you’re not completely stalled on the startup, just more maintaining. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#136

I don't know if it's fair to classify this as just a mom problem. I'm having the same problems as a Dad.

Hell, I'm having the same problem as the foster parent of a cattle dog! Near constant demand for attention, wanting lots of play time and exercise and mental stimulation and affection... I don't have kids but I imagine it is similar!

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#137

Honestly, the real question in all of this is, Why have kids if you're not going to spend time with them and raise them while they're growing up? We already have too many people on the planet, yet it seems there are people who would rather hire nannies, to watch the kids while they both parents are workaholics. I guess I don't see the point.

This is my point of view as well. I don't understand why you would have a child and then proceed to not nurture and teach them because you're busy with something else.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#138
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t say it’s impossible. We can optimize our time better, we can hire a nanny, she can stop breastfeeding at several months of age etc. But do we want to? It’s a personal/family decision and it’s definitely based on circumstances and necessities. Historically people have raised children in dire conditions. Still would I rather do a startup or have a regular job while raising babies? I don’t think I would ever go…

Oh, by all means if you’re able to choose to do so via the means and desire, I think it’s a great opportunity for not only your child, but also for you and your spouse. I was more surprised at what seemed like was a suggestion that you can’t go back to work or else it would be markedly more difficult for your spouse. I guess it’s to say, lots of people choose not to have additional children because of fears like that…

Yeah, and also COVID didn’t help either. We would definitely hire hourly babysitters, daycare etc, but with COVID it’s not that straightforward. Probably we will try something like that from now on, after we got our vaccines

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#139
The author makes a lot of good points until the last paragraph:

>We can’t expect more women to succeed in the startup world until we’re able to talk honestly about how much harder startups are for those who want to spend a lot of time with their kids...We’ll never reach our potential as female founders until we acknowledge that each woman’s attitude towards children is different.

The idea that just "talking honestly" will change the inescapable realities of everything discussed before this paragraph nearly dismantles the point she's trying to make. She acknowledges that "on the whole" women want their time to be consumed more by kids than by career success. She acknowledges that even she herself has turned down a position that would grant her more success and power, but did so for a cause she deemed valuable and does not regret it. The logical conclusion of her argument and personal life experience is that not all women are the same, but that women are more likely to decline more successful positions, not because of discrimination or some systemic barrier, but because they'd rather focus on their family.

But instead of suggesting that we accept that fewer women are going to succeed in the startup world, she's suggesting that "honest talk" about how hard it is will magically increase their success. How would "honest talk" have changed her totally rational and uncompelled decision to decline a CEO position? How would recognizing that the potential of some female founders is limited by their priorities towards children help other, possibly childless, female founders reach their potential?

The last paragraph reads as an apology for what would have been the natural conclusion of her argument, but which she dare not say because suggesting that we accept anything less that full parity of success between men and women in positions of power is forbidden. She should have stuck to the idea that people need to be treated like individuals with different priorities and not to the idea that women need to be treated like a group collective.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#140
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do not mean any offense by this - but how is a nearly one and a half year old requiring full-time attention from two people? I ask this as a single dad of two kids, one of them since they were < 1.

god knows how normal people cope!

We are wondering the same, especially during the pandemic
Post reply on HN