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Google have declared Droidscript is malware

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Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#131
post #26

> We don't allow apps with any code that could put a user, a user’s data, or a device at risk. If Google thinks the ability to execute arbitrary code puts users' data at risk why don't they go the full iOS route and ban everything, from scripting apps to other JS engines beside Chromium? I am so sick of their behaviour, the only reason I am still on Android because things like F-Droid still exists and iOS is even mor…

Given the issues that termux has hit, they're certainly moving that way. https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/wiki/Termux-and-An...

Only because Termux developers refuse to use Java APIs and don't accept Android isn't a POSIX clone.

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#132
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most users would prefer a mostly safe experience and gladly give up the option to run arbitrary code on their device for that experience (including arbitrary code they've written). In an all-out "this or that" between allowing IDEs on the Play Store in general and giving the average Play Store user what they want, the IDEs would lose. But it does suck if there is no legitimate way to release an IDE targeted to run on…

Most users don't really understand what they're giving up when they give up the option to run arbitrary code As with privacy (Facebook privacy settings, cookie boxes), it's easy to bamboozle the general public with complexity and then interpret their confusion and (violated) trust as consent.

This is because most users aren’t giving up anything, on the contrary, they’re gaining a more secure phone.

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#133
post #25

It's seriously time to re-embrace the idea of ownership and control of our devices, and reject Android and iOS altogether. Developing for those platforms has become worse and more restrictive over the years, and this kind of crap is now just everyday news. How good are Pinephones[1]? Are there better alternatives? [1] https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

Remember that you can still use Android without Google apps entirely. Depending on how popular your device is, you can retain close to 100% of functionality. You can also use banking apps etc. but methods are in constant flux and it's an ongoing battle

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with the appliance business model - embedded devices that use microcontrollers are Turing complete and yet no one complains about those. It's only when devices are marketed as general-purpose (i.e. smartphones, PCs) but are locked down to prevent running arbitrary user-loaded code that it becomes a problem.

I disagree. I also mind when things like my tractor or my car are locked down to prevent my ability to use a 3rd party repair shop, repair it myself, or make changes so the item better suits me: The person who fucking owns that computer. I think there's a very real risk that the concept of "ownership" is going to die if we continue in this fashion. Do you own a thing if you're prohibited, intentionally - by the manuf…

Add that on to the fact that almost everything is rent to buy with "incentives" shoved in your face for never actually finishing out the contract to own something, like your phone. I think ownership for everyone outside of some select few is in very real danger and I've thought so for some time.

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#135
post #87
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Can't you just make us a general-purpose computer that runs all the programs, except the ones that scare and anger us? Can't you just make us an Internet that transmits any message over any protocol between any two points, unless it upsets us?"[1] The War On General Purpose Computing continues. Far too many business models depend on selling general purpose computers as "appliances". They presume it is possible to…

The battle really parallels the larger right to repair debate. (Especially if we realize the latter is probably is better called the right to exercise control over purchased goods.)

Does it? Everyone is quick to judge but coming up with an alternative is hard enough that nobody has done it so far.

With scale comes scaling issues; general purpose computing and repairability need a different commercial model that doesn't match with the currently used models.

This leaves two avenues:

- Make it worse for everyone but keep it going

- Make it worse for everyone in a different way and keep it going

I don't know of a good solution here, but I do know that it's a sucky situation and the many "good ideas" to fix it aren't actually making it that much better.

Current scenario:

- Manufacturer on the hook for most things but also controls most things

- End-users that fall within the 90% bell-curve are fine

- End-users that fall outside of that are royally screwed and they don't even know it

- Users that are not end-users are screwed, but they know they are

So far all I have seen is:

- Manufacturers still on the hook for everything but they get to control less

- Everyone gets a little better but also a little screwed now

- The 10% outside of the curve don't get as screwed as they did but they still don't really know that they are screwed

- The non-users don't get screwed the way they used to but still get screwed

To clarify:

If I were to manufacture something, express what user experience comes with my 'thing' and warrant that experience to a certain degree, I don't want to be on the hook for any service or cost outside of that. The more I get to control, the smaller I can make the risk. That means I can also plan ahead better and reserve resources, but not so much that I don't have resources for something else left over.

This also means that if someone wants a different experience (i.e. they are not my targeted audience) or if someone wants to do something I cannot verify, I really do not want to be on the hook for that.

In total that means:

- If what I want and what my customer wants is similar enough, we're both happy

- If a small percentage wants something else, I cut my losses and simply don't serve their needs as soon as the cost of maintaining that deviation is bigger than what I would make off of it (short term and long term)

- If someone does something I don't have control over, but they do come to me to fix their problem, I don't want to be responsible for that, and I don't want to do any research on the possibility that something I made happened to break at the same time the customer broke something else; I just want a blanket "I am the captain of my UX" rule and be done with it

Now, I'm not saying this is ideal, or that I am an actual manufacturer, or that this is specifically what Google is doing (or Apple is doing for that matter), but I am saying that you can't have it both ways. Want something cheap and abundant? Gotta have scale. Can't have scale if you make a bunch of risk, add a lot of differences and support more than your middle-of-the-bell-curve. This sucks, but it's also not easy as saying "let me do what I want", because what happens to you and your device has side-effects, and I really don't want to get affected by something someone on the mobile network (or wifi network) I'm on did to their 'personal' and 'owned' and 'freedom' and 'muh righz' device.

Or in a high contrast (black-and-white/good-or-evil) line: If you want to be on a shared service, play by the rules or get out. (reality isn't that high of a contrast obviously, but it drives the point of externalities home a lot quicker)

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with the appliance business model - embedded devices that use microcontrollers are Turing complete and yet no one complains about those. It's only when devices are marketed as general-purpose (i.e. smartphones, PCs) but are locked down to prevent running arbitrary user-loaded code that it becomes a problem.

I disagree. I also mind when things like my tractor or my car are locked down to prevent my ability to use a 3rd party repair shop, repair it myself, or make changes so the item better suits me: The person who fucking owns that computer. I think there's a very real risk that the concept of "ownership" is going to die if we continue in this fashion. Do you own a thing if you're prohibited, intentionally - by the manuf…

I agree.

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with the appliance business model - embedded devices that use microcontrollers are Turing complete and yet no one complains about those. It's only when devices are marketed as general-purpose (i.e. smartphones, PCs) but are locked down to prevent running arbitrary user-loaded code that it becomes a problem.

I disagree. I also mind when things like my tractor or my car are locked down to prevent my ability to use a 3rd party repair shop, repair it myself, or make changes so the item better suits me: The person who fucking owns that computer. I think there's a very real risk that the concept of "ownership" is going to die if we continue in this fashion. Do you own a thing if you're prohibited, intentionally - by the manuf…

I still like my car to have an immobilizer, and locks on the ignition and doors. There is certainly some level of access controls that most people definitely want.

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's just time to see phones as what they are - a phone. I don't really care what software is ran in my truck, as long as it works (And that's why I'll not buy a Tesla). It's a phone, use it to call text and guide and browse some internet. That's it.

I uninstalled all social media from my phone. I feel so much better. I use it for chat apps, phone calls (usually via chat apps), and occasionally wandering around Imgur when it would be socially awkward to not be on my phone. The rest of the time I've come to appreciate being present in the moment. So yeah, I'm looking at the new generation of Linux phones with interest. If I can run the chat apps in a browser OK, t…

In what kind of situations is it socially awkward to not be on your phone? Genuine question, I'm not great with social stuff.

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#139
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the issues that termux has hit, they're certainly moving that way. https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/wiki/Termux-and-An...

Yep, Termux is the most used app on my phone and I don't know what I will do when they have to migrate to SDK 29. I will probably buy another phone and install LineageOS.

This is the first I've heard of Termux and now I'm curious what you use it for. Like are you SSHing into other environments?

Re: Google have declared Droidscript is malware

#140
post #121
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, Termux is the most used app on my phone and I don't know what I will do when they have to migrate to SDK 29. I will probably buy another phone and install LineageOS.

Does LineageOS provide a workaround for this?

Unfortunately there is no good alternative to Termux (its Android API). But with a rooted phone you can use chroot to install a Linux distribution. LineageOS is just a popular ROM for rooted phones.
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